Episode Transcript
Hi, this is Rachel on Recovery. We were back with Doctor Tracy Shore and she's going to tell the rest of her story and tell us how this might differ from neurofeedback, our EMDR.
Well, it's pretty different in the sense, as I mentioned, it's more of a brain fitness program. It's a way like I kind of mentioned earlier, we were talking. It's a way of keeping your brain fit. For life. So I like to think of it. Oh, so for example, let me give you an example. We, we tested these. We provided it to these teachers during the pandemic and it was during the summer, the first summer before they were going to have to go back to school. And so there was lots of, you can imagine, as you know, we all know anxiety that first summer, you know, a lot of people. Couldn't leave their house and they didn't know if they would go back to school etcetera, etcetera. But teachers in particular were very, very much affected and K through 12. And what we found was that the women who it was mostly women who who who didn't take this training, they became more and more anxious as the summer went on and more worried they had more traumatic stress in their life. But the women who were doing this program just once a week, once a week, live on well on Zoom and once on a video, if they wanted to watch it, didn't have that increase. So, you know, what that data suggests is that these programs help you not only recover from what has already happened, but they kind of prevent some of these symptoms from arising. Because we're all going to experience trauma in the future. We, you know, we don't necessarily know what it is or when it will happen. But most
likely we're going to have something that's going to feel traumatic. Yes, definitely. Yeah. And so we kind of have to prepare our brain. So I think of this more as a way, you know, again, not only of recovering from something that happened in the past, but also kind of learning how to respond to something that that will, that will happen either now or in the future.
I mean, because, well, and there are a lot of us that there are a lot that have suppressed their memories and then they get them later in life. Yeah, exactly.
I think what people you know, what people tell me and and I guess I even experienced, but what people tell me that after they do this program they just feel less
distracted, you know, they just feel more present more calm, you know, we and less likely to ruminate. You know the biggest finding we have every single study, they don't Luminate so much about the past. And you know, I don't know why that actually happens. I I do have a brain, I'm doing a brain imaging study now to to kind of figure that out. But it feels like it's just a a learning how to discriminate between the past and the present. And making a choice in a way about, you know, where you're going to focus your attention.
You know, we did do a study also because sometimes people say to me, well, we know meditation is good for us and we know exercise is good for us. So, you know, what's the big deal? And you know, I I get that. But we did do a study showing that if you do both of those together, one after the other, it's better than doing either one alone. So these are these are women who had trauma, primarily sexual trauma, and one group only meditated twice a week for 30 minutes. Another group only exercised aerobically twice a week for 30 minutes, and then another group did them together, you know, did the MAP training. And then another group did nothing. And and by far the the ones who who had less depression and less rumination and greater self esteem were those who who did both of those activities, you know, back-to-back. Yes, and that's super helpful, you know, because some people, I mean I I know in especially in Western culture, we are not right. Many of us are not ready to meditate. I know.
I know I'm trying to make it, you know, more accessible and more. And I think also by knowing a little bit about how these activities change our brain, it kind of helps people know like, oh, okay, it's, it's, I could try this. And I mean, I've been meditating now for 15 years and I still find it difficult. I mean, it never gets easy,
but. I do know that it's kind of helps me and I feel like afterwards, particularly if I do the meditation followed by the aerobic exercises, just I just feel better. And you know, like I try to get that memory of how I feel afterwards, like recognize it. Like, oh, this is now, this is how I feel now. And I could feel like this if I just would make myself do this activity one hour. It's like one hour and and you can really change how you feel. So yeah, yeah. And the meditation too. Like people think, oh, I don't, you know, I don't have to become a monk and like move to a cave and sit in silence for for hours on end. It's just 30 minutes, minutes, minutes sitting, 10 minutes slow walking. So it's something you you can do mostly. It just takes a little effort. Oh, most definitely.
Tell us about your current study with women on college campuses. Yeah, so I kind of hinted at that. So I have a study right now. You know, one of the things that I've been interested in and actually saddened by is how prevalent sexual violence is on on college campuses. I think most people are aware of that, but. It's just so sad and so problematic. You know, these women come to school, they're so excited to go to college and then you know, some experience happens and it it can just change everything. And
so I've been working with the victims assistance group, you know at Rutgers and for years now really on these studies and and most recently we've been. Providing this map training program to to women who've had this these experiences. And then also what we're doing is scanning their brains. You know, we have a a new brain imaging machine that's state-of-the-art and it can kind of detect lots of different changes in the brain. And so one of the things that I'm interested in doing is uncovering kind of what is like not only what is it that happens in response to this to these kinds of traumas. But then how? What is the recovery process look like? You know, what does it look like when people start to to say, oh, I'm not ruminating so much and I'm not thinking about the past as much or feeling as much. My heart isn't racing. Every time I have a memory or something reminds me of what happened. So
yeah, so that's what I'm doing. It's going well, I think one of the, you know, I guess sad. Parts of the story is that there's just so many women that want to do this. You know, it's
more than we can accommodate really. And you know this is true across college campuses across the country and you know so one of my my goals would make to make this program accessible to to these populations of people who. You know, maybe, like I said, don't have a lot of money to spend on therapy or even have the time or access to it. They could do like this. Yeah, most definitely. How do you think the community could better respond to sexual abuse? I
mean, the community, not necessarily college community, just. Yes, US. Yeah. You know, like I mentioned, I, I do think that, you know, the me Too movement and all the kind of sister movements that went along with it really did help a lot.
You know, five years ago when I was doing some of these other studies, you know, just seem like it was everywhere. Everyone was talking about it and it felt like there was a lot of incentive to kind of help people recover and also just prevention. It's kind of died down a little bit lately, I feel like. And that's unfortunate, I I still feel like people do know more than they did. They appreciate how prevalent it is. And it's that it's a serious, you know, problem One in three women in the world will experience sexual violence in their lifetime. That's not okay. No, it's not. No. And you know, getting that information out, but again, not only about. Stopping it not only about
the kind of legal aspects of it, we also have to focus focus on on prevention like just preventing it and and when it does happen, preventing some of these negative consequences. Oh yeah, most definitely and I think I mean to begin with that starting to acknowledge what consent is and I think yeah that is something that. Is not talked about enough, and I know I think Hollywood is, you know, depending on where you're at, has actually started doing a pretty good job of at least opening that door. Yeah, I agree. I was actually listening to one of your previous podcasts and and and and one of them, you were talking about consent. And I was thinking, yeah, you know, that really is not talked about enough. Like what is it? And particularly when you're young and you're in college or high school and you know, you've gone through puberty and you know, that's when these experiences typically happen. When women are young and it's often their first sexual experience like that's. You know the first section of experience. Is a monumental experience in your life. And then to have it be associated with, you know, such violence is just, it's just not OK. And I just feel like if everyone kind of knew like what what's at stake not only like you know what is consent, but you know what is a possible consequences if if we, if you don't know what it is and Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, because shame is our worst enemy. Yeah,
and I think, I think a lot of us struggle with shame so much and it's debilitating. I mean, it's just like carrying around an extra £5000 everywhere you go. I know I have a one of my really good friends was really traumatized as a young child by her dad's friend. And then she was gang. I don't even want to talk about it, really. It's so bad. And you know, it still hangs over her head and she's in her 60s still all these years later. And you know, at the time she didn't really tell anybody and and and even when there was kind of gang rape happened, no one would believe her or they thought it was her fault. And oh, it just infuriates me. And it changed her life completely. And she's, yeah, living with it today still trying to find help. Oh yeah. I mean I know I had a had a professor and her brother was sexually abused as a kid. He doesn't leave the house today.
And I mean and it's not just women that are experienced this. I mean men are too, I know. And they and they don't have. An outlet for it. They're probably even less likely to talk about it, too. Oh, yeah. And most of them can't. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've been surprised, you know, since I've been working on this. How many, just just generally, how many people have had experiences, particularly when they were young? And some of them, a lot of them didn't even necessarily know at the time that it was. Oh, yeah. I mean, they've done all they have to rephrase the questions. I know Allender does a lot of rephrasing of questions to just help men identify whether or not they've been sexually abused as children. Yeah. And
it's heart wrenching. And I have, I have dated so many guys that have been sexually abused and how much they have struggled. Yeah. And they don't have words in there. They don't know how to deal with it. Yeah. I mean, you know, we were talking earlier about just sex differences in general in these, in these responses to trauma. And, you know, that is one of the kind of countdowns is that men are often less likely to talk about it. They're less likely to seek help. I'm sure you know that men are more likely to engage in, you know, suicidal. Activities, it's. And actually, yeah, it's, it's a problem. And it's too bad in a way that
you can't stop it. Yeah. I mean, I wish we could. I don't know how that's ever going to happen. But we at least have to take care of people who have already, you know, have already been traumatized by it. Most definitely. Has there been any improvement?
I think there is improvement. I I do, yeah, in my lifetime, I would say for sure. Just talking about it more, there's more information. As I mentioned earlier, there's much more research being done on women and trauma, which were kind of ignored for a long time. So I do think there's been a lot of progress and I and I even think there's more openness about different types of therapies that could help different types of practices that maybe weren't traditionally accepted, you know in in in research circles and academic circles is being helpful. So you know I think the Internet and some of these apps too that that.
Emerged during the pandemic. So now, for example, teletherapy, so people can get therapy online through Zoom. No, that's good. That's actually great because a lot of people couldn't didn't even have the access to go see a therapist or find one or could afford it. So I do think there's been progress. I do. And and I don't think knowledge is power. So I think the more people know about how trauma affects the brain, that's my concern, the more likely they will be to to do something about it. Now, most definitely. What's some of the best advice you could give to victims out there?
First of all, you're not alone. You know trauma is common and I don't know if that that's not necessarily good, but it can be some degree comforting to know that it's you're not alone and and as a result there's
there is help to be had. You know you kind of have to seek it out. It's not necessarily going to be easy.
I would also say that some of these. Approaches do require some effort and I think sometimes people want like an easy fix. You want to take a pill or I don't know take some mushrooms or whatever it is and somehow be cured. And I'm not sure that's the evidence suggests that's going to help or that's even possible at this stage, you know so or have a brain implant of some sort. So I think kind of recognizing that this is a process that. Healing is a process. It takes time. Just like if you had a a back injury or a big cut on your leg, you know those take time to heal and and and similarly our brain and our and our responses to trauma. It just takes time, but it will, it can and it will heal over time,
most definitely. What do you do for self-care?
I do map training, actually. I mean, one of the reasons I am so, like, compelled to get it out in the world is because it really does help me too. Yeah, I kind of live it. I, you know, I don't do it as much as I probably should. I I kind of have to do it sometimes because I'm doing these studies and various things. So sometimes I kind of have to do it, which ends up being good for me. Actually, a couple years ago I did have a back injury and I couldn't do a lot of things. It was difficult, you know, sitting a long time. It was difficult definitely to exercise. And
it did. I would, I did notice the difference. You know, I felt, I felt like I was really kind of down a little bit depressed, really. Yeah. And so I do it. For myself, I mean, I do recognize it that people do have problems that can prevent them sometimes from doing a lot of these activities. But if you kind of just do what you can do, it helps, even if it's, you know, less than what you might wish you could do.
The thing that I also do is I just kind of make myself do it, you know? Like sometimes if I wake up, I'm like. I don't really feel that good, really not that optimistic about the future. I'm thinking about something I did and I'm really regretting and I'm just like really in a bad headspace. I'm like, okay, Tracy, you need to do at least some exercise
and even better, some meditation followed by exercise. And then when I do do that, yeah, I'm really thankful I made myself do it. No, I think most people could agree when you do, oh, especially just with exercise, if they do their exercise, they feel better. Yeah, it's it's like a miracle medicine. But just getting yourself over the hump of getting doing it is the hard part. And the same thing with meditation. You know, meditation is actually even kind of harder, like getting over that hump. But you know, once you sit down and like 5 minutes in, you're like, yeah, this is what I needed. A little silence,
Most definitely. OK. Is there anything else you'd like to add that we did not ask? Can't
really think of anything. I've covered a lot. I
yeah, I mean, for people that are interested, I do have this book Everyday Trauma. It kind of covers a little bit of all what we talked about. It's a little bit psychology. I have a lot neuroscience stuff and map training. I talk about and other therapies that help people with trauma I'm making. I just made some videos of my map train my brain program, so I'm hoping to get those out in the next month or so so people can do them if they're so inclined. It's on my website called Map train my brain.com.
There's also a description of the program on my website and so you can just do it on your own too. You know, I I kind of like doing programs that are with either with other people or online, but other people don't you know, they would rather just kind of do their own thing and so that's obviously perfectly fine and. So, yeah, I just encourage people to to get out there and find out what's available. Kind of challenge yourself to learn something new, even if you think you might not like it or you think it's too hard. Like, you know, just get out there and and engage your your brain in the world. Most definitely. Learning keeps you young. It does. It keeps us. It keeps us alive. That too. All right. I think that's it. Thank you for coming on our show. All right, guys. You can follow us on your favorite social media platform, follow us on your favorite podcast platform. And we also have a YouTube channel. And if you have any questions, always reach out to Rachel on recovery.com. And I will have Tracy's Dr. Tracy's Shores information in her bio at the end of this episode that you can read through. Thank you. Thanks, Rachel.
