Julie Anne Smith on Spiritual Abuse

Hi, this is Rachel in recovery. We're here with Julie Anne Smith and she's going to tell us a little bit about herself and then she's going to answer some questions. Hi, I'm Julianne Smith. I am a Blogger at spiritual sounding board beginning in 2012. I don't blog very much anymore, but my story in a nutshell is. I was sued by my pastor and that kind of got my start on my blog, my personal in my personal life. I was married for 35 years. I have seven children. I've dealt with a lot of religious trauma. In it at Church, of course, but also in my marriage. And I'm also a survivor of childhood abuse in my own home when I was growing up. So that's that's it in a nutshell. We could go on. Like. OK, let's get into the questions. Um, what have you done for recovery? Oh wow. Well, you know as we talked a little bit earlier you know part of part of this process of living, we we deal with a lot of trauma and so like I mentioned in the introduction that I dealt with physical abuse by my by the dad who who adopted me. So that was from toddlerhood to about 19 years old and. And there is also some other kinds of abuse going on in the home with my mom who wasn't taking care of my medical health but my asthma. So she put me in harm's way, so I failed to deal with that. But when I lived in the Philippines, we dealt with a 7.9 earthquake and I couldn't get over it and I moved back to the States and moved in with my parents, with my 2 little kids at the time. Um, because my husband at the time was sent to the Persian Gulf. And so I figured, well, I'll go back home to my parents and, you know, get over this earthquake because we were still experiencing aftershocks. Well, lo and behold, I'm in Oregon and I'm feeling earthquakes, but there really were no earthquakes. And it looked like the chandelier on my dining table, my mom's dining table was moving all the time. And I would say, mom, do you see that? And she goes, no, it's not moving. And so, you know, that made both of us suspect something is wrong with me. And what what was going on was I was experiencing PTSD and I was having flashbacks of the earthquake and nightmares and, you know, just hypervigilant. And I couldn't. Just settle. It was really, really difficult to live each day, to be a mom, to be present. And so I my first thing was I went to a Christian counselor and they called it biblical counseling and. That actually got me worse because they had all these formulas. Just pray more. Just read the Bible more, do pray songs more. And and you know you'll get better. Just how faith you know you know if you just have faith it God will answer your prayers and you know I did all those things But God wasn't answering my prayers. And so that made me feel like God really hates me and I felt really abandoned and I was going downhill and feeling suicidal and. Finally, my mom said you're not getting better, you need to get help, and she encouraged me to go. Psychologists. And so I did that. And this is in 1990, so, you know, it's quite a few years ago and that psychologist clearly saw that it was PTSD and and we began that recovery process and it took about three years until I finally never, I didn't. One day I just realized, you know what, I haven't felt an earthquake. This is weird. I I don't know what this is this a new thing? And am I going to be able to go through a day without feeling an earthquake? And and sure enough, I had done my work and it was. You know, earthquakes and flashbacks subsided and and and then I I was good. So I have to say I also went inpatient during that time when I had to deal with some other emotional trauma from childhood. So that's one aspect of my recovery. Later on, when I dealt with spiritual abuse and I was sued by my pastor, I also went to therapy. Then I was told you know, hey, this is such a big deal you might need the extra help. But I that wasn't particularly helpful because that therapist didn't understand spiritual abuse. So and then I went to therapy again, going through my divorce. And and I'm still currently in therapy, just about every other week. Nothing. Nature, but I've also done EMDR, which I have had pretty good results. It's really helped a lot. So yeah, I've had. Many bouts of therapy through my life and. I love it. I think it's so important, especially those of us who have experienced trauma, you know, life gets confusing when you. When you go through difficult things, when you, when you have trauma in your background. So it's a great tool to help keep you sane above water and and just moving forward. Most definitely, yeah. Um. What have you seen help with other people's recovery similar to yours? What I've seen a common thread is. You know, those who tell their story. I think are are some who really benefit a lot and. You know, there's there's something very powerful about telling your story. Because you get to say that narrative from your perspective and in a lot of abuse. They other are abusers are trying to tell the story, and they're telling a distorted story, usually benefiting them. But when we tell our story, it's kind of like our brain gets to catch up with the reality of what actually happened. And hearing ourselves say it out loud to somebody else, I think is absolutely. And you know, crucial and a very important part of that healing process. And I've just seen it work so many times. And especially if you're telling, most especially if you're telling your story in a safe place. Most definitely, yeah. Umm. What have you seen as far as patterns in this type of abuse? With spiritual abuse, primarily. What have I seen as patterns? Well. It's. Are you talking about the patterns of the survivors or the patterns of the abuse, like maybe kind of the grooming process? Ohh how do how do you how do you you know people in positions of authority yeah OK so that that happens it's it's pretty amazing cult leaders and and high controlling church leaders it it's like they follow the same rule book they know exactly how to do this gig and typically you will find them love bombing in our in our. Church situation. The pastor, unbeknownst to us, changed. You know, this, his, his Sunday afternoon classes, his, like, you know, evangelism classes, because he knew that the people, the new people coming in, were really into evangelism. And so he started a brand new series. He started a brand new series on Wednesday evening about a different topic that people in our group were interested. There was a whole group of us that started. Going to this new church. And so he really changed everything to appeal to us and that's called love bombing. And you know, so, you know, we would be attracted to him and his message and want to stay. So I typically see love bombing and A and concerted effort to try to bring somebody in and make them feel loved, make them feel welcome. You know, pour out the red carpet. And then after you're in for a while, then you start seeing true colors. But that's a very common way. That very much sounds like what you'd see in a domestic abusive situation. Oh, absolutely, yeah, you. Oh, yeah. I work with a lot of women who are in, you know, very difficult, controlling marriages. And you didn't. They, a lot of them didn't show these colors at the beginning, you know, they were just wonderful, loving, kind human beings. And then once they got married, things started changing. Yeah, so it's I, I tell you abusers, I don't know where this handbook is, but it's somewhere, and they've all read it. No, um. Yeah, most definitely. Um. How has this impacted your community? Well, in my church community, the one where the pastor sued me. He, he immediately, you know, labeled me as divisive and, you know, under the influence of state and all this kind of stuff. And so it caused more division in the church. There were those on the pastor side and then those who were shunned. And so you know, everybody felt it, you know, you had to pick a side and if you picked. My side, you were automatically shunned by the pastor and everybody in the church. So, you know, it was very divisive and very, very uncomfortable. If you saw, you know, a church member at the store that you normally would, you know, go have coffee with or spend some time with, you know, they would avert their eyes and walk the other direction. So it was, it was very hurtful. Hmm. That is, you know, it's heart wrenching and you know. I just talked to a lady the other day and she's like, yeah, no, when I I lost all my friends and all my church church friends the moment I spoke out. And they're still and in small towns. I think it's even worse. I mean, I live in a city. If something like that happened, they'd be like, huh, who, what? Right. And when you think about the fact that your church is kind of like your safe zone, right? You're you're the key people that you associate with and then to go cold Turkey and, you know, be told you can't connect with them. And this is where you pour, you pour your heart and soul into this group and you do recreational activities with along with ministry activities and so you. Time and and a lot of times in these groups you spend so much time that you've already isolated the people around you, like your neighbors, you, maybe even your own extended family and friends. So that makes it very isolating when this kind of fracture happens. Yes, most definitely. Um. And I mean, and I think that's what the perpetrator's goals are and that's why when all this stuff kind of goes to court. They almost always side with the pastor. Yeah, because they, because they, the pastor has done the groundwork, you know, or whoever you know, whoever is doing the abuse has done the groundwork. They are playing advocate and. They love to do damage control if anybody speaks out against them. Oh yeah, definitely. I think we talked about, I talked about that with Baz and I think Pete Singer so. That's huge. Um, houses impacted your dating life? I wasn't expecting that question. What in particular? Which? Which part? Well, I mean after going through. Ah. Going through all this spiritual abuse and the patriarchal, I mean, yeah, the ability to trust men again or. You know, that's a difficult process. So I I have been in doing online dating for over 2 years now and. So you know my. My new. Way of practicing my faith is different than it was. You know, know, years ago where I was a traditional, you know, go to church every Sunday. You know, I, I had, I had it down, you know, the way the normal way, right. And and now I'm in a different place. I do go to church. I have a great church and they're very supportive and they understand spiritual abuse. So, you know, so, but as far as the dating aspect. I I know what I can't have. And you know one of the things in my marriage was. You know, part of that story is is that he changed his path and um started. A a different believing, a different doctrine. And I was so busy raising our seven kids and homeschooling them that I didn't keep up with him. And, you know, he really didn't share that with me. So what happened was is that? um He thought that his way, that particular doctrine was the only right way, and he internalized that. And so when I said raised questions about that doctor, and it's Calvinism, by the way, and when I raise questions about it and I said I don't agree with that, he interpreted that as I'm being rebellious, I'm being unsubmissive. And know that that's not really what that is. That means I am an individual who has a mind of her own and decided that I don't agree with that doctrine. That's what that means. It had nothing to do with him. It had to do with the doctrine. But he internalized it and. You know, he went on a a mission to, you know, sabotage. The rest of our marriage, by saying that I was an unbeliever and unsubmissive and that kind of thing. So I'm very careful when I'm dating to ask what what do you believe? Do you believe the husband is the head of the home? You know, I want to ask what denomination they are. I I ask what who? You know, which kind of. You know, Christian books they read. What kind? Who are the authors that they read? I asked what? How are you? How would you be if I decided I'm not going to go to church on Sunday? How would you be if I said I'm not going to pray with you, you know, because my spiritual abuse journey and recovery. You know, I give myself grace to miss on miss a Sunday if I feel like you know. I I just need time alone today. I don't you know and and so I want to make sure that the guy that I'm with. You know, gives me that grace and that freedom and has that understanding of the path that I've gone on. So thankfully I really haven't dated anybody that. Wouldn't um. Go along with that. So that's that's been very helpful. But you know, when you've gone through spiritual abuse in a marriage, that's something that you really have to be careful about in in dating because you don't want to get yourself caught up into something similar. But like you know I'm an open book and I'm very transparent and I just say I I can't deal with this. You know, if this is not who you are then we probably, you know won't be a you know I I just put everything on the table. And and make sure that we're compatible that way. That's definitely the way to go, yeah. How has this impacted your reputation I guess? Well. I have an online presence, whether I liked it or not, just because my story went so viral and I was really worried about it because I had to go back to school and get my degree in, you know, and support myself. And so my field is cyber security. And I was thinking, Oh my gosh, this is going to be really difficult because obviously, you know, cyber professionals are going to look online and find me, right? Um, but. Thankfully, you know the the first manager who hired me he he has a little unconventional way of hiring people and he was fascinated by my story and it's pretty evident by you know the stuff if you read that you know I am truthful and you know the the stuff that I have done online and advocacy work is you know, I have a good reputation about that now of course. If you dig deeper, you can find the website by my old pastor and he writes all these scathing things about me. But it's pretty evident when you read his writings like who is this guy? But you know, I think the deal is, is that when you, you know there's an up, there is possibility that somebody may misinterpret what they read online about me, but. Um, I. I don't care. Fair enough. I I just don't care. Because the ones who need to know. No. And like I said, my manager knows. He now my new manager knows. They they all know and they all have great respect for what I've done in this realm. So it hasn't, it hasn't harmed me. But you know, if you don't have thick skin it probably, you know, it might harm you. You know, so you have. That is something when you go public that you do really need to consider. You know, is this is this something that I want to have to deal with? I mean, my kids can look up me and find crap on me, you know? But they know me. So you know it's it just depends on how how grounded are you and are you able to handle the the negativity because whenever you do this kind of work. You better believe it. You're you're on the frontline of being trash talked. But that's OK. I I get it. I totally understand it. And I've been. I've been OK. Haven't had a problem, yeah. Why is this impacted your social life? Oh, not. Not at all, really. I mean, um, well, I don't have, I don't have much of a social life because I work full time and I do this, you know, advocacy work. I I do spend quite a bit of time working with others who are. You know, either spiritual abuse or in in really. Challenging marriages and high controlling marriages. So you know, I I do spend a good bit of time but I'm trying to get some balance there. But yeah, I mean I've got great friends and. So it's, you know, I'm in a new stage because I've had to change everything because of the divorce and everything, so I'm kind of trying to find my new norm now. Fair enough. I guess how has this impacted your career? I guess we, yeah, we kind of touched on that. You know, a cool thing about that is because my managers understand that I really have good understanding of systems of abuse. Um, they really listen to me if I say, you know, I'm noticing something and and they give me that respect and I think that's, I'm kind of blown away at that actually. But it's so, you know, this all this work that I've done, you know, in the spiritual abuse realm and and, you know, abusive marriages, Christian marriages. You know, it's, it's working in other environments as well, you know, to have that kind of knowledge and to say you know, this, this really is not healthy. I'm really concerned about my teammates, that kind of thing. So it's it's been beneficial and that's been awesome. OK, how has this impacted your parenting? Oh, OK. So you know, my older kids clearly remember the cult church and they were very affected by it and all, all of you know. You know, my youngest was only two when we were there, so he doesn't remember it, but. You know, part of that dealing with the spiritual abuse and then also dealing with the divorce and the the confusing. You know, Christian, you know how we worked out our our faith and stuff. And so, you know what I do with my kids is I tell them. You know. I believe this. Um, your dad believes this. I want you to wrestle with it and research on your own, and you need to come to your own conclusions. Your faith is your faith. It's not mine. And, um, you don't have to take my faith. You don't have to take your father's faith. You you just need to. You know, do your work and. Explore and then find out what works for you and what fits for you and what you believe is the truth. So basically, you know, I work really hard at giving my kids agency and letting them know that they need to own that themselves, that that's not something that I can carry for them or their father can carry for them and and so basically it's encouraging them to have to use and use their critical thinking skills. OK, now I mean that's. That's really good parenting. That you're doing, um, how has this impacted your faith? Yeah. So I've had to, you know. After going through the spiritual abuse. It's it really. It really did rock me to my core because I was getting so many of the pastors, really. Um, abusive spiritual messages that I was internalizing. And so it's kind of like I had to start with a clean slate and I've I can't read the new King James version anymore because that's what he used and. Um, I, you know, I'm just taking things slowly and and. I'm not. Buying what everybody says, hook, line and sinker. You know I challenge myself and and I dig deeper on on, on issues. But basically, I'm doing church light now. It's it feels better. And I there's just, there was just so much heaviness in what we were dealing with and so. You know, I'm kind of making my own faith journey and that probably would be shocking to the, you know, some that have. Um. Were in my abusive church and then they would say I'm apostate and at whatever. I don't care. You know, my relationship with God is my relationship with God. And again, I need to own this journey. And so, yeah, it definitely has taken a toll on my faith, but I think I'm in a much healthier place now. I, you know, I've. I've dismissed so much of that unhealthy. Um, really toxic, harmful teachings. So yeah, I think it's better and if it feels more genuine. Most definitely. What do you do for self-care? That's a great question. You know, I work full time now and so, you know, finding a good balance of working and then taking time to. For myself. So you know that's why I I continue to do therapy just to stay aboveboard and and and just really be healthy. I just recently started bullet journaling and in that journal I do have it tracking and just different things that I've wanted to just. Ensure that I do each day and um. You know, just to keep me on a forward, um. Motion of. Being healthy. And so some of that includes, you know, I want to listen to music each day. I want to make sure that I spend quality time with friends in real life. I, you know, I had an imbalance of primarily online friends because I just didn't have time to go out. But, you know, like last night I went out with the a friend and. Had coffee and, you know, it was just very nice to, you know, have those kinds of friendships. But I I do dedicate a lot of time to, you know, really trying to ensure that I'm grounded and prioritizing my mental health. Umm. You know, here's here's another good example of that. I I remember when I was in my darkest days that, you know, I couldn't keep up with my house and it just became messy, cluttered, you know, and it life was too difficult just to do the menial tasks. Well, I'm noticing. I really thrive in an environment that's tidy, where everything is put away and so, you know, I'm making that a priority. I mean, it seems basic, but you know, when you've dealt with. You know, major depression and anxiety and stuff like that. These simple things you kind of forget. So yeah, I'm just trying to live a healthy, balanced life with with people and giving myself space, giving myself room to grow with really focusing on. You know, always improving. Fair enough, um. What would you say to encourage other survivors? Ah, well, kind of like I said at the very beginning, your personal story. I think it's a key to. Your recovery. And when you keep it locked up inside, um. I I don't think you give it the time and attention it deserves, but having a safe audience and telling your story. Um, to somebody who is. Understanding and really wants to hear it and is empathy, has empathy and wants to connect with you. I I think it's life transforming. And it's not that they've done anything. It's that you've vocalized it and you've told your truth out loud. And like I said, something about your brain hearing that truth and it's kind of like you're validating yourself. It's very powerful. So if you're in front of, you know, somebody who is a trusted, caring person who's also validating you, that's two of you. Validating yourself and the other person and it's just very, very empowering I think when I. When I tell my story and speak it out loud, sometimes I solve my own problems that way and it's like, huh, wow, never thought about it. But if I kept it inside, I may not have come to that. So I I am a huge advocate of telling your own story, whether it's you know out loud in front of a safe person and or you know people did it on my blog as as I safe place because they knew that other people could resonate with it. So somehow telling your story where wherever that safe place is is just so important. Most definitely. Um. I have another questions very similar. What would you say is the most important piece of advice you gave that somebody gave you in your journey of recovery? Well. Somebody gave this on my journey, but it really wasn't a part of my recovery. But I think that it can be adapted to recovery as well. And and and should be and. I was struggling with the idea that. I am going through a divorce and I don't have the jobs. You know, I, I I don't have any job experience. I don't have the a degree. I don't know how I'm going to survive financially. And this guy said to me, Julianne. Listen. In four years, you can be exactly where you are right now, with no degree, no nothing. You know, just. Flailing along just like you are right now. Or in four years from now, you can be showing me your degree. What do you want? And I tell you that hit that kicked me in the rear end and I think the same thing could be said about. Anybody in recovery? If you're at a place. That you just know there's something better out there and you're just not happy or thriving in your life. Then what I would recommend is, you know, in four years are you going to be saying the same thing to me? You know, I'm just not happy. I'm not thriving. Or in four years, are you going to get the help that you need so that you can thrive and survive? I mean, not not just survive, but thrive and and just be happy and you know. For having a fulfilled life. So I think that's so important, is that we don't settle for where we are. If it's not a life of peace and hope and joy, you know, so many of us who have experienced trauma, we kind of get stuck in a in difficult places and it's hard to move forward. I mean just to get the energy to move forward, but I'm saying. Do you want to be where you are in four years, or do you? Do you want hope and joy? Go get it. Go get it. Most definitely. Um, is there anything else you'd like to say to our listeners that we haven't covered? You know, I can't think of anything, but I'm I'm so appreciative of you reaching out to me and and asking me these questions and I'm just, you know, this has been a lot of hard work to get to where I am. But it's so exciting to know what's ahead of me. And what's ahead of others as I watched them, um, you know, tell their stories that that actually is probably my greatest joy is when I, when I see other people I've, I've worked with who, you know, were stuck just like I was and watch them progress and get healthy. And many times they're often the ones who also come back and start helping others as well. So, so many of us are. On this journey of recovery and it's a beautiful place and the people are absolutely wonderful as as you know. Most definitely. All right. Thanks, guys for listening TuneIn, on Thursday mornings at 10:00 AM central time. And you can always follow us on your favorite podcast platform or your favorite social media platform. And also as always, reach out to Rachel on recovery.com. Thanks for listening.