Episode Transcript
Hi, this is Rachel on recovery. We're here with Melissa Bolden and she's going to tell us a little bit about herself and then she's going to answer some questions for us. Hi, Thank you, Rachel, for having me on today. My name is Melissa Bolden. I have a ministry in Boldin ministry and our goal is to empower impact and impart into this generation the love of God. Okay. All right, so here's some of the questions. We're discussing spiritual abuse today. What forms? What are some of the forms of abuse you've seen in church? Well, there, you know, I was thinking about that question, and I don't think I have. I don't have the verbiage for it. Sometimes I've seen abuse where people are walking in the prophetic and they abuse it by saying I'm right and therefore. You know I can't be questioned. If you question me, then you're questioning the spirit of the Lord. Also with the prophetic, I've seen where people have determined they want to do something and so they just said, well, the Lord told me to and really what that does is that shut shuts down conversation because you know, if the Lord told you to do something, I I can't be like, well, you know, maybe he didn't. So I've seen a lot of people use the Lord told me as an excuse not to be questioned, as an excuse for their decision not to be discussed, because it kind of shuts down the the conversation, other forms of abuse, you know, a lot of manipulation.
A lot of. You know, I just, I mean, there's so much. I have not, fortunately, I have not experienced or seen any type of sexual abuse. Most of the abuse that I have experienced has just been authoritarian abuse. Yes. Abuse of power, yes.
What are some scriptures that you've seen used to abuse? Oh, quite a few. Quite a few. I think anytime when you take the Old Testament without the context of grace, you have a tendency to abuse scripture. Here's some examples. I did write down some examples. I think one that is used most often to protect pastors is First Chronicle 1622, where it says do not touch the Lord's anointed. And so I've seen that used so that pastors just kind of have free reign. If you agree, or if you disagree with them at all, it is seen as being disloyal, being dishonored, dishonorable. So that one I've seen used a lot, I've seen that one used a lot to keep people in power who really just needs a conversation, you know.
Another one that I've seen is Malachi 216, which it says God hates divorce. And I think we we don't teach that in in context. Meaning, you know when God said that if you read that in context, what God was talking about was how men were leaving their wives for the smallest thing. And in that society, since women didn't have power, they they couldn't work, they were leaving women destitute. And that statement of God, God hates divorce was not a state in your marriage, no matter, no matter what kind of declaration. It was really a plea for his daughters because he felt like his daughters were being abused. And so, you know, he was warning the men, you know, don't just get rid of your wife for, you know, burning your biscuits or something. You made a commitment to them stick. And he even uses the term. The wife of your youth. So it was really God's heart to see that marriages stay together and that husbands take care of their wives. But it wasn't meant and where I've seen it used in the in the church today, we use it to keep women attached to abusive husbands,
you know, and I think an abusive husband is. If your husband is having an affair, in my opinion in today's society that is physical abuse because he can bring some disease home to you or yes, or physical abuse or emotional abuse. And I don't think God meant for his daughters to stay in relationships where they would be abused. Most definitely another one is the you know, a lot of these things are are good but. Just taken in a place where they have become abusive like wives submit to your husband's, You know, I think yes, that's a good thing. We we should submit to our husbands. We should submit. But the definition of submission is not, you know, don't have a voice and do everything they say without questioning. That's not the definition of submission. And we talked about wives submitting to their husband, which that was written in Ephesians 5. 22 24 But we don't talk about Ephesians 25 33 Paul took two verses, verses, verses to say to women submit to your wives and then he takes another 8 verses to say to men, men love your wives as Christ loved the church. So we preach one without preaching the other and I think that's abusive. That most definitely is. Yeah. So I think. You know, I think a false sense of honor can be abusive. I even think the tithe message, I mean, that's that's complete. That's completely taken out of context. Exactly. And I and I don't have a problem with tithing. But I I do have a problem when it's used to create fear among people, when it's used to use God as a someone in heaven just waiting to smite you, That's not. New Testament idea of tithing. Well, I mean, let's talk about tithing just for a second. I mean, for the most part, tithing was only used in three different scenarios. One was, you know, I think, I think it was Abraham used it and he used
it for spoils of war, which has nothing to do with income.
And then then, according to the Old Testament, during that time, you know, they only, you know, you have to be a descendant of Levi to even receive ties.
And that's most yeah and you know. That's on gross.net, like, you know, as farmers. So really ideally that would be more closer to of food and it had nothing to do with any other source of income. Yeah, my, my, I've heard all of the the talks in the debate on time and this is where I land on it. I think it's a spiritual discipline because God calls us to give and I think that, you know. Whatever God puts on your heart to give, if that's if that's if that's that's Whatever God puts on your heart to give, you should give it willingly and with the joyful heart. And I do believe that as Christians we need to support our local church, our local body, However, God has put on our heart too. I remember when I was getting my pastor's license, that question came up and.
They were very offended by the fact that I said I don't believe that there's a curse associated with not tithing. I think that it is something that we give out of our hearts and that we are in A and we are in a state of grace and whatever God puts on your heart to give. And some people, for some people with a a background that that percentage is for them. And I I, I respect that and I think if God has put that on your heart, do it and do it well. Yeah. Well and I also like, I think I prefer the term offering versus tithing and just takes the percentage out of the equation. Yeah. So whatever you do, whether or not, however you give and I think we should go back to this, the abuse comes in. When you feel manipulated to give, whatever that is,
if you're listening to I always tell people, if you're listening to someone and they're saying, oh, if you send me you know you'll have uncommon favor or whatever. That's the manipulation. That's spiritual abuse. So anytime somebody tied you getting something specific, Ty T, i.e., you're getting something specific. With your giving or they are manipulating you to give or tearing at your heartstrings to give. And even you know, a lot of times that goes back to the message of tithing. If you don't give, then God can't bless you. If you don't give, you're you're removed from underneath his his blessing. All of that in my opinion is manipulation, is spiritual manipulation and abuse. And I think we should teach people. I just taught a sermon on this. I think we should teach people. To to give, but give from a perspective of of joy and give what God has put on your heart. To give not what some televangelist or some what pastor is moving you to give most most definitely.
Yes. Some really. You know I think, I mean I think in the I think Americans didn't even talk about tithing in the church. For until like the 1900s, yeah, I think a lot of things have been abused and we have to go back and do our own reading. Well, it was considered, you know, the church's way of fundraising because originally in America, our churches were funded by the government. I had not. I've not heard that one. But yes, not a history buck, but I have not heard that one. And so when they took the, the finances away because, I mean, they used to fund towns like libraries, churches, schools or whatever, and that was part of the church was part of that. And so when they took that away, this was their fundraising to keep the church alive.
I had not heard that. Yeah, no, it's a kind of an interesting part of American history,
but I mean. And honestly, tithing, I mean, tithing actually started. And I want to say Ireland was the first talk, and I think they brought it over to America a couple years later. But even in the New Testament and the Old Testament, we see how given was the responsibility of the congregants. We see that in the Old and the New Testament, we see people given financial gifts to Paul. Yeah, I just see the church now, the church, the structure of that given was different because it was not used to pay for big buildings and all of this. The part, the purpose of the given, well, I guess it was in the Old Testament when they built the temple and then we kept repairing the temple. But in the New Testament it was used to provide for people. Who were hungry provide for widows provide. That's what the purpose of giving was and I think definitely we have taken that to to now we we give to the church to support pastor salaries and church buildings and you know that's neither here nor there. I think it all goes to the Lord. I would like to see churches give more of their budget to the poor. And to help people in their area than to just build buildings. Oh, I mean, if you look at the Old Testament and the breakdown of where the tide was supposed to go the first year,
I mean, I guess it was the the second, the third, the 2nd and 5th year were supposed to be, you know, a third of all ties are supposed to go to the poor and to the widow and orphans. And in the 6th and 3rd year, all of it was supposed to go to the poor and the widows SO4 ninths. Yeah. But they were also supposed to take care of the priest because the priest didn't inherit any land. Is that correct? Yes. So they were supposed to part of that went to the priest as well. Well, that's what the first year and the 4th year were for. And then the 7th year was jubilee. I mean, not jubilee, but the year of rest. Yeah. I have not done an extensive study on tithing, So I have, Yeah. Well, that was a kind of a hot button issue with me for a while. So I, you know, I I did some pretty intensive research on it and I'm just
because I was just tired of, you know, when somebody mentioned it. And so I did my research and I was like, OK, well then maybe we shouldn't, you know? Maybe it shouldn't be taught or maybe we should teach it differently because I don't think why did it become a hot button with you? Well, my dad mentioned it and I looked it up and I just, I went to a church and they were all they talked about tithing and I brought up like, hey, these are the scriptures and I got some very negative response. Yeah, it is very much, it is very much a hot button within the church. In the Evangelical Church in particular, well, I guess I should say Protestant church, it is very much a hot button. And again, I go back to do what the Lord has said to do in your heart. And so if tithing is something that you feel like the Lord has called you to do, I feel like you should do that,
You know, do whatever God has called you to do. And if tithing is it, then that's okay. If you want to call it a tithe, that's okay. I feel like you just do what's on your heart. Yeah. You give how the Lord has put on your heart. But what I I don't like is the teaching from the pulpit that there's a curse associated with not doing it. Yes. That to me is manipulative. Well, and then, as Jesus says, you know, give and give freely. Exactly. And that's what I would like to see us teach, is to give and give freely. Yeah, most definitely. On to next question, since we have so many,
when we see recordings of abuse in the Bible such as Lot and his daughters or most people would see as the first record record of a form of victim blaming or David and Beshiba more of a story of rape.
I was right that question. But where? What is the what is the question there? We see this in the Bible. What it what is like? Yeah, I guess when we see this in the Bible, you know, if you look at it and you read it from like a mental health perspective, you would see Lot and his daughters. He was a drunken man who took advantage of his daughters.
Now I understand the story of Bathsheba, the story of Lot, I see differently. And he was drunk, but his girls did kind of plan, You know, we want to, we want to to have a baby. So let's go into our dad. Now. He should not have been drunk, and he should have. He was the adult in the situation, if you will. But both with the story of Lot and his daughters and Bathsheba and David, I think the church has missed an opportunity. To minister to people who have been the victim of rape and who have been the victim of child abuse by not using those stories correctly. Because both of those stories ended up Lot and his daughters ended up being the father of the Moabs and Ruth was a Moab and Ruth is in the lineage of Jesus. And Bathsheba's son, not Solomon, but her. Maybe it was Solomon and another son. They are both in the lineage. They're on both sides of the lineage of Jesus. So looking at those stories, especially the story of Bathsheba, we can see the power if you have been sexually abused. That Sheba is a great story of redemption, of the freedom of forgiveness. And if we would, if we would preach those stories correctly, we can see women healed and know that there is something on the other side of sexual abuse and know that God can redeem the most horrific thing that could happen to a woman. God can redeem it. And I think that is the that is the main story that we should be preaching from those stories, that we should use those stories
as an example of God's goodness, his mercy and his redemption and his restoration. Yes, And with law and his daughters, I would say you got to realize who was writing this story and whose perspective it was written. Because if you think about it, it was probably written by a lot or a man and his first. You know, if if you would take that into a modern day situation of you know, an abusive man, their first thing is to blame the victim.
I guess I guess we we don't know that I'm very much into the inerrant word of God. So I can only go by the translations that I've read. It was in Genesis, so it would have been recorded by Moses who was recalling I guess what he had heard throughout the year. So I guess there is some of that in that
but I think that that. We can get That's not the in. In my opinion, that is not the the headline of the story. The headline of the story is God's redemption. And if we can tell it from that perspective that God can redeem even the most ugliest of situations, I think we we can get people to see beyond their own hurt and beyond their pain. And see that there is a tomorrow. I think that's true.
Okay. Let's move on to the next question. How should we as Christians respond to these scriptures, scriptures as Christians to the world, How should we respond to Lot? And that's the story of David and Bathsheva. Again, I think as the church, we've missed this. Actually, I've actually preached on this. I preached on the story of Bathsheba and David and I just really believe that we have missed this opportunity. Women of all ethnicities of all age groups have experienced sexual abuse. They have experienced sexual rape. Let's just call it what it is and we have covered up this story. We've kind of sugarcoated the story. When I was growing up, the version that I heard was that Bathsheba seduced David. Oh yeah, But when you read the scripture, it is obvious that David saw David wanted David had a lot of people use the fact that she was on the she was taking a bath outside. But that was cultural. As a matter of fact, she was probably taking a bath in something called a Vic car, I think it was. And it was a ceremonial cleaning of because she had had her menstrual cycle and she was being ceremonially clean. So this was something that in our, you know, if if I were to go take a bath on my roof, that would be headlines, you know. But in this day that was not a headline because that's was the way they it was a cleansing process and it was probably done in a way that. It was so common that men just knew not to look. But David was in the wrong place because he should have been at war. He was taking a nap in the middle of the day. David was in all the wrong places and he saw something he should not have seen because he was in the wrong place.
So that lies. That lies squarely on David's shoulder and even when David, even when God spoke to David. David when his repentance, he's he, David took full responsibility for what he had done. But I think that story can be used to bring hope and healing to people who've experienced sexual abuse. And I wish, I wish we would we would tell it like that. But we are,
as Christians we are very fragile.
We're very fragile as Christians, and we want to sugarcoat everything. Oh yes, instead of just being honest and talk about the there's so many flawed men in the Bible who did some horrific things, but yet God used them. And so. Which means that we don't have to. I read something. I was listening to something the other day by the Bible Project. And it and it said just because God uses flawed men doesn't mean he condones what they do. And so even though God used David and he loved David, he did not condone David's act with that Sheva. Yes, and if we would just tell that story in context, I think women who have experienced sexual abuse can find hope. Because God, you know Bathsheba, end up sitting on the King's court as Queen Mother. Yes. So we can use that to show people there is life after this horrific. You don't have to carry this the rest of your life. Yes, you can be set free from it. You can be redeemed from it. God has God. There's another side to this.
Right, right. And if we again, if we would teach that in context, then men would not be allowed to do that because we see Dave, David was dealt with very severely because of this and not just, you know, we always think about his son dying, but it wasn't just that, his family. He was jacked up after this. His his son raped his sister. His other son had sexual intercourse on a roof with all of David's concubines. So David paid severely for this. He didn't get up. He didn't get a pass.
How do you feel the church could do better with helping with sexual abuse victims?
I I think we've got to stop the narrative that it is the woman's fault, that we've got to stop the narrative that it is because women dress a certain way. We've we've just got to stop that narrative.
And I I think that's where it starts. I think we need to offer women who have been sexually abused. I think we need to offer them a safe place. I think first and foremost we need to believe them
and and just find a safe place for them to land, a safe place for them to find healing and stop sweeping in under the rug. I think if it comes out about a leader of the church, I think it should be dealt with that that leader. Even while you're investigating what's going on, I think that leader should step down until you know if if this person is actually lying on them, right. They should have the humility to step down and let the truth come out. But I I think we've got to, we've got to stop blaming the victim, believe what they say, give them a safe place to land, a safe place to tell their story. And I think with our teenagers. Fever. That discusses it with them. We've got to stop telling young women if you dress a certain way, then you are asking for something bad to happen to you. I always like to give the example of this. If you are wearing a beautiful necklace and I see your beautiful necklace and I, you know, just ****** it off your neck. No one is going to allow me to get away with saying, well, Rachel knew I like beautiful things. She shouldn't have been wearing it in front of me. Nobody's going to allow me to get away with that. But we allow men to say that. Well, she knows. Well, men, you know, we use this excuse, and I wish we stopped saying this. Well, men are just visual,
and that doesn't give them a right to take something that's not theirs. And we've got to stop. Just, we've got to stop shaming girls because they dress a certain way. Oh, most definitely. And I think we have to do that. We have to start in the church. Yes, we. You know, I, I, I raised a daughter and I wanted her to dress modest,
but I I don't think I would have ever. Hopefully I never told her, well, if you dress like that, then you know you're attracting. The wrong thing, hopefully, though that was not my comment to them. But, you know, hopefully they she dressed modest out of her own sense of self. Yes. Well, and I always say, you know, there are a lot of things that I wish, you know, sexual, you know, the way they teach sexual purity and things like that. There's no room, you know. Nobody ever taught me, you know. About what happens in a rape situation. Nobody taught me, you know, what to do as far as like, you know, the shame that came with that, right? Right. And I yeah, I think we need to be more open about sex in general with our kids. Again, we are very fragile people in the church and we think if we talk about something. Then it will cause
promiscuity. But I think, I don't think just talking about it will. But I think as Christians and I, I wish I had been more open with my own children about sex and sex education. But I I really think that, you know, we have to stop shaming people. We have to stop lying to our children. We just have to be honest with them, most definitely. And I I think even tell them, I don't know. I feel like, you know, people, especially young women and men, because it's not just happening to women. Yeah, you know what to do if somebody is, you know, touching you inappropriately or, you know, and there's, you know, this is not, you know, power, you know, the. The abuse of power that could be tied in with this, especially if it's being done by a youth pastor or something like that. Yeah. And again, I think, you know, in the South, from the South, and we are very polite people and we, we're delicate and I think we teach our kids to have words for their sexual organs when we should just call it what it is. So when a child comes and sits, someone touches my vagina. You know, sometimes if someone touched my woo, woo or whatever, we may not know what they're talking about, but I think we should be expressive with our kids and just use language that it's common. It's common that everyone knows what you mean when you say that. Yes,
most definitely.
What are things that trigger you in the church today? Or is there anything?
That was triggered yesterday in church.
Oh gosh,
this is more coming off of the last three years or so when
the church,
when so many in the church have been so adamant. About politics, vaccines. So I right now I'm triggered when I hear and if you say you listen to a certain person or
a certain person said this and that person is of this camp of the political camp. I I, you know, I I get tense.
So I guess what triggers me now is just politics in church,
Yes. No, I I had to leave a church because of politics in church.
I was so triggered, especially during the last couple of elections have been very heated to say the least. Yeah. So I I think that, you know, we have. Separation of church and state. We should also have a separation of church and politics.
Yes.
No, that's a yeah, that's a whole mess right there.
Thanks for listening to Rachel and recovery. Melissa Boldw will be back next week at Thursday at 10:00 AM for Part 2. And always follow us on your favorite social media platform or podcast platform. And if you have any questions, reach out to rachelonrecovery.com. And we have a YouTube channel, so always subscribe to that as well. Thanks for listening.
