Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, this is Rachel on recovery. We're back with Pete Singer, and he's going to tell the rest of his story.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: Pete, can you tell us the four r's?
[00:00:13] Speaker C: The four r's really are key in that framework. So the four R's were something that SAMHSA really put forward to frame those six key principles that we were talking about earlier.
So the first R is realize, as we realize what that's talking about is recognizing it, or realizing that trauma is a thing, that trauma is real, that a lot of people have experienced it.
So with realize, we realize that there's trauma.
Once we realize that there's trauma, we recognize some of the key signs of trauma, some of the key indications that trauma may have occurred so that we can respond better. But we also recognize that there are paths to recovery, that it's not something bad happened. Therefore, everything that the AcES study says is going to happen to you.
We recognize the signs of trauma, and we recognize that there are paths to healing, paths to recovery.
Respond is really self explanatory. We respond well.
We respond by helping the person along that trajectory of healing and recovery. We respond by helping a person find the context, the psychological context for what has happened in their lives. But we don't respond in a way that hurts them. And that brings us into the fourth r of resist retraumatization. And with resist retraumatization, a lot of what we've been talking about today is about resisting re traumatization. How do we not make it worse?
How do we not meet a person who's experienced harm and then harm them more?
So resist retraumatization is the last of those four r's. And it really talks about making sure that our response does not make a situation worse instead helps to.
[00:02:37] Speaker B: Okay, how could we do better in supporting the LGBQT plus?
[00:02:49] Speaker C: Sure. So this is a really difficult question for some churches based on their theology and based on their belief. And I'm not.
I'm not going to espouse any particular theology or condemn any particular theology, but just in general, some things that we do, we can do is recognize that any belief you have carries risk.
One of the basic tenets of Christianity is that Jesus is the son of God.
Well, that belief carries risk, because then you might mistreat people who don't have that same belief.
You might think that there's something wrong with them. Like when I was in college, I had a professor who was teaching world religions.
As he was talking about world religions, he was talking about, I believe it was Hinduism.
And he says, I know it's hard to believe that people like you and me, educated people and thinkers, actually believe this.
That is an assault on somebody's faith.
That is a risk to his theology that Jesus is the son of God, and he fell into that risk by mistreating people, at least verbally, who did not share that faith.
So any belief carries risk with it. Some beliefs carry more risk than others.
We recognize that belief carries risk, and we take proactive steps. One of the steps that I talked to you about earlier is just how do we address, if we're going to address from the pulpit, same sex sexual activity, how do we address that?
Is it if it happens to anyone, it's sin?
Well, then people aren't going to talk about same sex abuse, and you've set up a situation where people are not going to do that. And that just makes it a whole lot easier for anyone who wants to abuse same sex.
When you talk about, well, we know that the abuse is from all those gay people.
What you just did was anyone who is abusing somebody and is heterosexual or married just gets a free pass because it's only the gay people that that abuse, which is absolutely, 100% wrong.
In fact, what we know from research is that people who are LGBTQ are abused more than kids that are cisgendered and kids that are heterosexual.
So we know that that abuse occurs more for kids that are within the LGBTQ community.
And so we have to be very careful with what we say, how we say it. We need to make sure that we're not perpetuating lies.
We need to make sure that people are accepted and welcomed and loved for who they are.
For who they are as God created them, and not some, not a framework, not a design that we've decided is best, but are welcomed, accepted, and loved as they are in a framework that God has decided is best.
[00:06:43] Speaker B: Yes.
You mentioned the power and the effect that trauma has in your article.
We've mentioned it. But is there anything else you would like to say on that?
[00:07:01] Speaker C: On the effect of trauma?
[00:07:05] Speaker B: You mentioned power and the effect it has on trauma.
[00:07:10] Speaker C: Sure.
Usually in almost every situation, what we find is that abuse involves a power differential. So there's a person that has a certain amount of power and a person that has more power.
They're having more power might be related to their gender, might be related to the theology of the. Of the church, might be related to their intelligence or letters after their name, might be related to a position that they hold. So power could be related to many, many things. But for whatever reason, a person has more power than another person.
And then into that, those interactions and into that relationship, the person with more power uses that power to get what they want from the person with less power.
And it might be that they're getting sexual gratification. It might be that they're getting financial gratification. It might be that they found a way to release their anger by physically assaulting that person or physically abusing that person, whatever it might be, because they have more power, they feel entitled to take what they want or what they need from the person with less power.
Usually when that happens, a person is not sitting there thinking, I've got more power, I can do what I want.
But instead they have built in some cognitive distortions, some ideas that justify what's happening.
I give so much to this church.
This little indiscretion is not that much.
I have helped this family so much. Asking for a little bit back is just not that huge of a deal.
And so they've built in justifications for what they are doing with that power.
And you can often hear that when you talk to somebody who is a reported offender or somebody who's a convicted offender. Anna Salter in her book talks about many offenders that were incarcerated that admit, yes, I did it, or are in jail because they were convicted for doing it.
And you can hear those cognitive distortions. Anna Salter's book Predators, is a great book to read if you want to understand those power differentials and you want to understand also those cognitive distortion.
The one thing I would say is don't read predators. Before you go.
[00:10:06] Speaker B: Yes, it's a good book, but it's a tough book.
I think we've got two more questions. Are there resources for parents on healthy discipline and guidelines? Because I know that can blur lines into abuse because I've seen it myself, especially when it comes to things like spanking and things of that nature.
[00:10:36] Speaker C: Right. So what we know is that one of the key ways that people enter physical abuse of a child, whether that's accidental or on purpose, is corporal punishment that has extended beyond what they intended the corporal punishment to be or corporal punishment that goes into abuse. It becomes abusive.
It becomes abusive when there's any injury to a child.
I'm talking about abusive by law, not whether or not hitting a child is abusive just in general, but abusive by law when there is an injury to the child.
One of the things that I would recommend is I would recommend checking Victor Veeth. He's written an article that's called working with Molly.
And what Victor Veeth does in the article working with Molly is he takes a theological exploration of corporal punishment, and he asks questions such as, okay, we've got six clear references to child corporal punishment. They're in the Old Testament. They're not in the New Testament. They're in the Old Testament.
But we've got way, way more references to adult corporal punishment.
So why have we stopped doing adult corporal punishment and we haven't stopped doing child corporal punishment?
It also looks at some of the just some of the context of those statements that people point to, to say, see, we need corporal punishment.
He also asks the question, do we have to do corporal punishment, or is it an allowance that scripture made at that time?
[00:12:39] Speaker B: That's a really good point.
[00:12:43] Speaker C: And it may be an allowance that scripture made at that time, because, I mean, it's hard to put somebody in a timeout when you don't have a home and all you have is a tent because you're traveling through the desert.
It's hard to use timeouts, or it's hard to say, okay, now you don't get dessert when there isn't such a thing as dessert.
So there are a lot of cultural contexts, really, to be found within the teachings of corporal punishment. And in the book or in the article, working with Molly, Victor does a nice job digging through some of those and helping to understand.
[00:13:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I've read some of his stuff. I really enjoy Victor. He's even been on the show. So if you guys want to listen to that episode, I think we talked about cultural abuse and in the church and racism and that sort of thing.
[00:13:48] Speaker C: Yeah, Victor.
[00:13:49] Speaker B: Yeah, great guy.
Anything new with Grace? Anything coming out that we should know about? More resources, more information?
[00:14:03] Speaker C: Yeah, well, we're pretty excited. We're actually just wrapping up our strategic plan. We've been working on a five year strategic plan, and we'll be releasing that coming up soon.
And then shortly after that strategic plan is released, we're going to release our annual report just to say how 2023 went.
When we release those, we're going to talk about a couple of new initiatives that we are working on right now. So these are not ready to roll out, but these are things that we're working on right now getting ready to roll out. One of them is a cohort model. So right now, our safeguarding that we do the prevention work, a lot of the prevention work is one on one with a church. So it's working with church a to do this, a cohort model that we're trying to organize, and then once we have it designed, we'll be able to beta test. It would actually have several churches, at least in our head. It would be from an association of churches or a denomination or a group of churches in a geographical area that decides to work together to provide each other with accountability.
And so that cohort model is something that we are really excited about and are hoping will come out within 2024.
Depending on the speed of things. It might be 2025, but we're hoping 2024.
Another thing coming out. We are preparing a tiered assessment approach that would range from having some assessment tools that faith leaders can use on their own to having grace come in and do a full assessment like we currently do.
And so we are working on that tiered assessment approach. And then another thing would be just expanding the intellectual or thought leadership on issues related to abuse in the church. Abuse and faith. This article would be one of those things.
We also had a webinar in 2023 on trauma informed practices. So similar topic to the article, and we hope to do one to two, at least webinars in 2024, possibly even three.
Just an expanded format, probably more like a half day type of event where people can come and spend a half day focused on whether the topic would be trauma informed. Practice topic would be spiritual, top sheet, adult sexual abuse. Whatever the topic might be, it would be a four hour more in depth exploration of that. So hoping to do that two or three times in 2024. So those are a couple of new things.
[00:17:05] Speaker B: Okay. Was there anything you would like to add that we did not go over?
[00:17:11] Speaker C: None that I can think of. Just thank you very much for having me on.
As people can probably tell, I like talking about this stuff and social chimes. I talk a little bit long windedly, but really just appreciate and I'm honored by the chance to be on your, on your podcast.
Appreciate the opportunity. Okay.
[00:17:32] Speaker B: All right. Well, thank you very much and hopefully we'll have you on here again for some other reason.
[00:17:40] Speaker C: That sounds great.
[00:17:40] Speaker B: All right, thanks, Pete. Bye.
[00:17:42] Speaker C: Yep. Bye.
[00:17:46] Speaker A: Cast platform and social media platform. If you have any questions, reach out to rachelonrecovery.com. And always subscribe to us on YouTube.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: Thanks.
[00:17:56] Speaker UNK: For watching.
