Episode Transcript
WEBVTT
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We have Jim Bush joining us again
and he's coming back to tell the rest
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of a story. He's going to
give a little bit of Intro for those
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who missed last week's episode and then
we're going to go back into answering questions.
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Thanks. Yeah, Hi, my
name is Jim Bush. I'm a
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licensed marriage and family counselor and have
been treating folks with trauma and overseeing their
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care for about the last thirty three
years and now men management and oversea programs
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that serve those folks. Fair enough. Tell me about your experience training with
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the ace score and tell us a
little bit about the a score. Yeah,
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so Dr Philidian, Dr and got
together. Gosh, now it spent
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a minute since is I think it
was around one thousand nine hundred and seventy
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five that they started the a study, and it stands for adverse childhood experiences,
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and they were looking to find correlations
between obesity and some kind of some
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correlation between trauma or abuse and obesity. And so they identified ten categories of
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abuse and they so as like,
you know, the apparent being in jail
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or in the hospital, being slapped
or hit or, on a regular basis,
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witnessing violence. So they kind of
and they kind of define it,
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and so every person would have a
score from zero to ten. You know,
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I think about like, I don't
know, I can't remember now,
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spent a minute. Maybe fifteen percent
have one. I mean if you have
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divorced parents, that's a one.
So half the probably half two kids,
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would get that as a one.
But where we saw is hundreds of correlations,
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especially if you got over for and
so it's not the frequency of events.
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So if you had one, if
you had one thing happened every day
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for a hundred days, but it
was the same thing, that would just
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count as one. So it's categories
of abuse and Dr and I would talk
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about doses of abuse and so is
be like how much trauma did you get?
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And the and so the the complexity, the more different kinds. So
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if you had four or more,
the likelihood, like, of doing of
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shooting up drugs, is like forty
eight hundred percent. We're more than if
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you had a zero or a one
on the score. So what we saw
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was zero, two, four was
would incrementally, whether would be, you
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know, drinking or promiscuity or smoking
or pregnancy, teenage pregnancy. We would
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see increases the more you had,
the more likely it happened, but then
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some very physical outcome. So more
likely to get pregnant, more likely to
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miscarriage, more likely to smoke early
on, more likely to get CEOPD,
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more likely to get lung cancer and
then more likely to die from lung cancer
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with somebody with a lower a score. So we started to see the more
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categories of abuse that people had,
the more they would have a almost a
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compromised immune system, where we saw
that people were dying twenty to twenty five
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years earlier than the general population if
you had a score of for or high.
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And so really it's the the thought
is a couple things. One,
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the amygdal in the brain doesn't feel
safe and, as always hyper vigilant and
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always hyper alert to something bad happening, and then all these if you're smoking,
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doing substances, drinking, all these
things the bodies having to attend to
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on top of the hyper vigilance.
So we think it just ages people the
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more traumas that they've had. And
now you know the one clear thing.
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If you could have a high a
score and and have lots of resiliency of
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them, work through it and not
have prevalence of things in your life.
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Right. But so just because you've
had some bad things happen doesn't mean that
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you're directly going to have all these
things. We just know there's a higher
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propensity for that. So it's really
like, you know, a predisposition so
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and then and so there's lots of
other things that also assess both, you
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know, childhood and Adult Trauma.
But it gives you a script and understanding
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of whether you're going to be presisposed
to this. And one of the parts
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of the study said somebody even as
old as eighty five was still being affected
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by their by their a score of
those first eighteen years. And so you're
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more likely to be on an antidepressent, more likely to try substances, you're
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more likely to try and kill yourself
then. So the higher the score,
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the more all those things happen.
So it's just kind of a warning sign
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one. It's like if you have
been using substances and you find out that
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you're a scorers high. It's like
that that would be predictable. And the
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other side of that, on the
prevention side, with children. They have
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a high a score and they're not
doing those things. How do you actively
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work to prevent that from happening.
So if they find an outlet to talk
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about their trauma, then maybe they
won't use the substances that helped none the
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pain. So it's very useful,
but it's also not a program or an
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answer. It's mainly a identifier guideline
for the most part. Absolutely, in
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US trauma and abuse happen after eighteen, of course, right, and some
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times it doesn't happen at all until
then. And does that meaningful? Absolutely.
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One of the things somebody asked me
was one of the questions is that
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you witnessed your mother being abused by, you know somebody, and that was
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an Ason. Somebody said, well, I had I don't know what to
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count this, but a father was
being abused by the mother, and so
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I talked to you know, Dr
Philippi and it said, do we count
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that? And he said well,
you wouldn't count it for the study,
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but it would have the same consequential
meaning. So, you know, I
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think they just can't stray from the
original definitions. But the the you know,
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obviously if they're both your caregivers,
seen one being injured by another's going
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to have probably the same effect.
Maybe maybe a little different. At the
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mom as the primary caregiver, but
you could have a stay at home dad
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being abused by the mom as the
primary caregiver, you know. So just
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some interesting parts of the and that's
a little bit more on the research side
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of that, but if you go
to the CZC website and put in a
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study, you will find hundreds of
correlation will studies that show links between this
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trauma and lots of physical ailments.
What has been your experience with multigenerational trauma
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in Substance Abuse? Yeah, I
mean I think that you see that extremely
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frequently, both right and that's a
I guess my more mature goal than just
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helping people with trauma, would say
the more impactful way of looking at it
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as can we stop this generational cycle
right and I worked with an individual about
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twenty years ago who had been sexually
abused by dad from two to seventeen.
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Came into my carrot seventeen and you
know, I was extremely damaged and she
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started drinking at nine so she would
avoid remembering Dad's, you know, perpetration
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to her when she when she was
sleeping at night. So she was very
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damage but treatment in her teens.
I mean she did have a she did
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have an incident whereth the police officer, where she punch him in the face
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and spent thirty days in jail.
She's very bright and she was able to
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kind of process through that and she, you know, ended up going on
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to college, having a couple of
kids, very highly functioning and she knows
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that the work she did. I
mean both her parents like her. Her
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mom actually had borderline personalitis order.
She did not live with her, she
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lived with her dad who then,
you know, sexually abused her and of
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course denied at the grandma didn't believe
her that the dad was abusing it,
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using her like that. And so
we see, we see regularly those generational
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both and we know on the substance
sue side there's a genetic factor that people
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are going to be more predisposed to
addictions when they have the genetic part of
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addiction. But the trauma part and
the abuse part is very, very similar
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too, because there's some kind of
internal mechanism that's that to like if you're
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hurting me that and it's always been
difficult for me to kind of describe,
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but you can see it very frequently. If you're abusing me, I don't
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want to be myself. So,
like you disassociate, so you leave your
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body. And sometimes the thing,
the experience that people sometimes say they have
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as they projected onto the perpetrator,
right, and this that you see these
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odd relationships sometimes with with people that
like we see these studies where they've,
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you know, kidnapped somebody and they've
been with them for a year and this
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odd like connection in the abuse.
And so it's just it does replicate itself
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very often, very similarly to like
when I was just in private practice.
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A lot of times. Have you
know a dad bring in a kid you
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won't stop fighting at school. He's
getting kicked out over and over and it's
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like, well, what do you
do when you're mad at your kid?
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Well, I spank him. It's
so like when so, when you get
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angry, you hit, and then
when he gets angry and he hits,
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he's in trouble. And so sometimes
trying to see that correlation that we're teaching
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them early and often how not to
manage it, how not to handle then.
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So, but they generally are go
very much hand in hand. But
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to be able to like this girl
I was talking about, she knows I
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mean her girl her daughter's stremely bright, you know, on a roll,
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cheerleader, no abuse like now.
Has she lived a perfect life? Now?
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She's struggled to maintain jobs. He's
had a couple of marriages, she's
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been attracted to men that sometimes use
her right, but at the same time
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she stopped the cycle of abuse and
she knows it and that was that was
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more important to her than probably anything
in her life was to have kids that
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didn't have the experience that she had. And so yeah, it's it's very
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difficult, though, because you also
sometimes get ostracized by Oh, you think
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you're better than us, because you
start setting limits. Well, if you're
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going to drink, if you're going
to hit your kids, I don't want
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to be around Oh, you think
you're better than us. Right, there's
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I mean it's a very sad things. Even educationally, I saw young man
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that we worked very hard to get
through high school and his family wouldn't come
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to his graduation because, oh,
you think you're better than us now,
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and so the only people he had
his graduation where people from the group home
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that he lived in. And so
sometimes just some you know, tragic things
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like that. But we've seen lots
of frequency of this going on for generations
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and and so if you can get
somebody the understanding of the power where they
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can stop that for generations in the
future, that's pretty powerful. But it's
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also, you know, very difficult. Cool. Yeah, no, I
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can. I can relate that.
Breaking Trauma Bonds and not allowing abuse in
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your life can be very isolating and
lonely and at the same time, you
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know, life changing for others.
Right, but there's a cost. There's
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certainly a cost to that. How
would you like the mental health field to
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improve in the next couple of years? I mean, as much as I
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want to believe that we've reduced stigma, I think lots of people still don't
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get help because they don't want to
be judged. That's where, in some
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ways, tell a health has open
some doors where people can get care from
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there, you know, their couch
or their own couch with their laptop or
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their phone. So I think trying
to continue to reduce stigma. I think
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we continue to see. Think the
more like Simone biles comes out and says,
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Hey, I had anxiety, people
that we look up to, the
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more they own at the more they
talk about the more. But we also
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get to it's okay, well,
I'm I'm going to accept it for other
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people, but not my kid or
not my spouse or not me. Right.
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And so I think we got a
lot still a long way to go
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with that. And then I think
we have to just continue to find better
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and better ways that make a functional
difference for people. Right. Like to
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me it's always about trying to help
somebody manage their own lives. Like for
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a long time and mental health,
people thought it was fine to see your
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therapist for ten, fifteen years,
and I think the better model now is
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that we try and say, how
do we help you, you know,
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instead of giving you a fish,
teach you how to fish. That we
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don't really have, as clinicians,
lots of special things. We just have
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processes and systems that can help you
work so where you can go on and
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like manage your life better. I
mean part of this there's not enough providers.
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So, like you want to get
in, you want to be seen
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weekly, you maybe get in a
month and then you can get in every
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two weeks at best, and it's
really staggered. So like part of that
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I'd like to see more people going
through the field, which also comes back
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down to pay like pace not good
in our field. The work is very
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hard. I mean we are.
We are really struggling in our field to
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get people, you know, in
a residential setting there's there's lots of the
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trauma so bad. We see lots
of, you know, violence, abuse
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self self, phone abuse like and
then with the pandemic they've been they've not
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people have not been around them to
know the stuff's going on. So I
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guess, like you know, trying
to get more reduced stigma, get more
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availability and continue to try and be
the best train that we can be.
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What can what else can we learn
from people that have gone through it?
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And that's where the addition of peer
supports has been useful. So people that
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came out on the other side,
they work through some very difficult things,
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are now helping us, as certified
peer recovery specialists, to help people engage
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in treatment. So, Hey,
I was there too, and I know
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it's hard to trust, but this
is helpful. So it's and we now
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pay people that had life experiences to
share their life experiences with people, to
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tell them, hey, here's what
a here's what an intake is. Are,
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I ask you, twelve pages of
questions and they're not going to help
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you much to say. And then
you'll get a signed a therapist, and
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that therapist is really important that you
connect with them. Do you want a
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mail or a female? Is it
meeting your needs? How would you know
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if I meet your needs? You
know, how will you know if you
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are less depressed? And so like
trying to define what you want out of
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it and take control over your own
care, like you're the one investing in
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it. You know as a clinician, is not. I mean, we
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can point you that direction, but
it's always best if if we're just helping
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you meet your goals. And so
therapy, especially in substance, you so
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it used to be in your face, you're an attic during denial. That
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then really help people too much.
Now we say hey, where do you
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want to go, and I'll help
you, try and keep you on track
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to get there. So it's less
confrontational. It's more what we call joining.
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So we were join in with our
client and they're going to say hey,
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we're going to say are we getting
there or not? And it's only
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you know, you as a client, you as the patient, should dictate
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whether it's working or not. It
was not working. There's lots of things.
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So, like, let's say relaxation
and meditation. There's dozens of different
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ways to do that. If one
doesn't work for you, we can try
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different ones. So I you know, I really like it when clients say
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that's not working and as a therapist
I want to somebody to say that's not
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working or I don't like that style. And so what I do at the
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end of session to say, was
there anything that didn't go well today?
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Would you have liked another style?
Do you want a female you know,
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especially when I work a lot with
people that have trauma, like trying to
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be very clear about that, that
we have plenty of work, we have
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plenty of people to see. We
want it, we want well. You
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know, we'll get better outcomes if
you're getting your needs met, if you're
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getting what you want out of therapy. If some doesn't work, like you
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know, when you talk to about
your own little personal story, that wasn't
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very helpful. Okay, I'll make
a note. I thought it might be
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helpful to see it. But,
you know, like they were. You
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know, good therapists will really positively
respond to critical feedback and then you're more
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likely to get what you want.
What we generally see is that wouldn't really
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work, and then they don't come
back and then we spend weeks calling them
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to schedule when they don't want to
come back, and then they feel crappy
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that they're saying they don't want to
come back and then everybody feels crappy.
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Right. So just that's the other
thing is, how will we know when
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we're done? Generally people go to
four or five sessions and then they're done.
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Well after that, then we chase
them for three more and then we
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both feel like failures again. So
letting people say I'm done is very important
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to me, like okay, I
got what I needed, I'm done.
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I don't feel the need or no, I need to keep going or I'll
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come back, like we said.
We see it as people have episodes of
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care. So it gets bad for
a while when they adjusted that they don't
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need it as much and then maybe
three months later they need a little recharge.
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But there's no like way it has
to be. You don't have to
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be seen every week, you don't
have to like fix it all, like
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all I want to fix is this. If this was better, I could
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function right, and so really encouraging
people to to give that feedback and we
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know that the outcomes are better if
the climission just ask those questions. That
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the did you get what you needed? What can I do better? We
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know just those asking those questions,
people will have better outcomes. So it's
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important to guide your own care.
Yeah, I think the whole you know,
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if you say something's not working,
you know, I feel like I
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think some people are afraid to hurt
their therapist feelings exactly, and know I'm
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guilty of that as well, but
just hearing you say that makes me feel
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validated. Well, and you know
what, what I learned one time was
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if you don't get critical feedback,
you're not making it safe enough to to
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give critical feedback. And also,
like there is that protection. You know,
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clients do kind of look up to
you. But like, if we're
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not doing the best, if we're
not making the most difference, we're not
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fulfilling our goals either. Right and
so, and you don't have to say
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you know, you're an ass,
that sucked right or whatever, but you
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can say like that I didn't really
that didn't really work for me, and
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you're like Oh, okay, and
and you know like I said, there's
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so many different ways to go about
it. We're sometimes guessing. Okay,
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there's the probably ten or twelve relaxation
models that I would go through and I'm
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like this seems to fit, but
it may if someone said no, I
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don't really like that. That's I'm
not going to do it against try something
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else until we find the right one. But I do think, I mean,
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I'm sure I've done it too,
like not said something when I was
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like that's wasn't very useful, but
it it is what a good therapist is
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going to do and what we're what
we're in this field to do, is
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make a difference and if we're not
making a difference, you know it's not
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helping anybody. So I would just
encourage people to own their own care and
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if they doesn't, it's not working. Don't keep doing it. Okay,
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with that person, I mean keep
doing it, but try and find some
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you have the right to find somebody
that's a better match. And sometimes as
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personality, sometimes it's strategy. But, like you know, you should be
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respected with your course of treatment and
support to in whatever you're wanting to do.
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Like our job is not to judge
your path. Or job is to
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get you where you want to go. And and that's what's different in my
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career was we were a little bit
more you know. Also, you know,
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Oh we're eight hundred twenty five and
you have a job, and then
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you don't comment because you can't get
off work and then we say, Oh,
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you're resistant, like Oh, no, I can't get off for you
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know, like we are. Field
as has been a little self absorbed.
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So it's like, are you doing
evening hours? Are you so? Like
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we have to think about we true. You know, one time the organization
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used to say people don't fail,
plans do and and really trying to say,
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you know, people aren't trying to
to, you know, resist treatment,
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like sign up and then not do
it, but if they got three
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jobs and maybe, you know,
eight hundred five doesn't work right. And
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so trying to figure out how do
we actually serve people instead of like judge
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them. I think the field sometimes
gets to judge about our clients, even
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though we even, you know,
all of us therapists have our problems to
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write. We want our therapists to
stay till seven because we have patients till
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six. Right. So, but
it's hard work and but it's very gratifying
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and especially for me with probably the
most successful thing is when you're able to
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stop that generation of abuse. That's
that makes my whole year if we and
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you find a case like that,
because you just think about how many,
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dozens of people could be affected by
one person's stance and they might have suffered
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to do that. And sometimes people
don't have kids because I don't want to
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bring them to that and so they're
going to stop it that way. But
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but I think it's it does.
It takes a lot of courage and bravery
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and strength and it's hard. It's
all it continues to be hard. But
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the power of not replicating harm and
and you know, we as a system
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have to still keep saying, you
know, are we punishing symptoms? I
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we never want to retraumatize somebody by
punishing symptoms. And that's where I get
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worried about people with borderline if we
judge them about their symptoms, were retraumatizing
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them and they don't want to be
like that. But it's very it's easy
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to judge because the behavior, the
symptoms are ugly right, they're very personal
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and very harmy, and so like
trying to just deflect it and say,
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then set a limit. When you
talk to me like that, I'm going
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to walk away because it hurts me
too much. Right like versus, you
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know, losing your you know,
losing it on them, which is the
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instinct, because they can say horrible
things and very hurtful and they know it,
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but they're really responding to covering their
pain. But then they create so
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much pain. It's just hard,
vicious cycle, very much so, and
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they their lives generally always stay that
way. They don't. It's hard to
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recover from me. You can get
better, you can manage it, you
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can manage to it pause to a
certain point, but that hole's going to
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be there and so either you can
cope with it or you, you know,
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just have lots of failed relationships with
people that you love. Can Be
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very painful. What advice would you
give trauma victims? I think most of
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all probably to try and get help, try and that people can and do
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recover every day. That the power
of stopping generational views, but also finding
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somebody that's knowledgeable and knows what they're
doing and can actually help you and if
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they're not helping you, find someone
else. That I think that's what it's
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really hard to go out alone,
you know. And and yet, like
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my for thirty five years I've dealt
with pretty much only trauma and and so
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like people know, you know,
they don't they know how to help.
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They know how they it's not like
they're going to lie. Oh my gosh,
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I can't believe that's the worst story
I've ever heard. I mean it's
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it's also it's also hard on providers. You know that there's a secondary trauma
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that I said when to myself and
I left graduate school. If I ever
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got used to hear in these stories, I'd need to get out. And
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I can say to this day,
you know, every day I hear stories
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that I just it's a struggle with
right, that a life experience of a
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young person was pursue tragic. And
then I also am and continue to be
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inspired if they can go on through
their day and fight to see another day.
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You know, my little things about
my little life don't seem so bad.
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So I try and gain courage from
them and I also try and tell
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them you know, your strength,
your bravery helps me get be stronger because
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you know, like and and the
girl that I told you about that was
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most by of that. I'm like, if you can deal with this,
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life is not on to be that
bad, because they are nothing worth and
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and she's like that's right. In
fact, she she posted something today on
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facebook about about, you know,
someone believed in me once and now I
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made changes in my you know,
community and like that's powerful stuff and you
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don't, you rarely get, you
know, much of that knowledge. When
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they're better, they leave and you
don't hear from them. But at the
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same time you just have to know, you just have to be committed to
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not being judgmental, not taking it
personally and doing your best. I always
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tell people, especially in residential when
if we give them our best every day,
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they're still going to struggle in a
big way. This is not an
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easy course. So we can't show
up halfway to work like we got to
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give them everything we got, every
resource we got, whether it's for housing
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or relationships or getting off drugs or
finding a new way, and that you
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don't hurt yourself, whatever it is. But no, even at our best,
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life is going to be tough.
So it's a big commitment, but
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it's also a life filled with no
one. You did the right thing.
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You put your head on your pillow
at nights and I did my best to
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help right and and sometimes a lot
of times you feel like you're not making
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the difference, but I think we
are. What are some innovative treatments out
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there that you're a fan of in
the mental health of field? I mean,
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I think we've probably covered them,
like in the EMDR, the efficacy
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there, you know, the DBT, trauma focus, CBT, the better
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outcomes. Now is a model that
that talks about those questions, that gages
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those things, that helps you really
it helps you see if you're on the
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trajectory of getting better like you should
or that you've stoled. It also helps
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predict whether people are probably going to
drop out of there, because if you
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don't get enough back, you're going
to drop out. So that's a model
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that that works. You know,
there's we've seen a lot of efficacy with
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very severely depressed people where they still
use the electric shock therapy in a very
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different way they used to do.
Few episodes, very strong and powerful and
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and lots of damage to the memory. What we still what we see to
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this day is, you know,
maybe several sessions with low doses. We
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see less of the damage to the
memory piece and sometimes people go from perennially
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suicidal and almost hallucinating to functioning.
The weird thing is, you know one
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you don't want to do unless there's
no other alternative because it's risky. Until
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we still don't really know why it
works. You know, there's a lot
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in psychiatry and psychology, that and
the brain that we just don't know why
377
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it works. And say with medications
there's usually something that works. We don't
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really know why a lot of times
or takes a lot of different combinations or
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different trials. I wish we could
get better and I guess there is some
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some technology. The genome therapy.
We're on certain diagnosis. They figured out
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like they can read your genomic pattern
and say you will respond better to this
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classification than that, and so they
they jump to past ones that they're pretty
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sure won't work. So if we
could get better at that that applied to
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more diagnostic things. I mean,
I think the frustrating thing you're super depressed
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or suicidal. Here's some Mani depressants. It'll start working in a month as
386
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a very long time for somebody who's
severely depressed. Right and and like a
387
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psychiatrist said, it doesn't like magically
start working on the thirty day. It's,
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you know, one percent a day
or two percent a day, like
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it's but that's just too slow.
Like how do we help people feel better
390
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quicker? And so getting the right
medications as part of it, getting the
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right therapy, getting the right there, because and being able to tell doctors
392
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and therapists when it's not working so
we can try something different. But having
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people wait in pain, I think, is is we can do better.
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What do you do for self care? HMM, it's a good question.
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One of the things I can the
trauma work that I do. We we
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do require everybody that we work with
the have a selfcare plan. We don't
397
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dictate what it is, we don't
enforce that. It happens. But you
398
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know, I have a hour drive
to work and an hour drive home and
399
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that's where I spend a lot of
my time. You know, dstressing.
400
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I've been I've been listening to a
lot of jazz and in some classical music.
401
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Bach has some upbeat stuff. What
I like about those two models of
402
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music is there's no words to detract
me, so I have to like be
403
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more genuinely like what does this music
make me feel, which takes me off
404
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of, you know, the the
abuse that I heard earlier or whatever.
405
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I like to play Golf, I
love sports. We've got three big dogs
406
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that keep us very busy working on
the house. I got a couple kayaks
407
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that I like to use. So, you know, the more physical the
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better, because it's very, you
know, very much mindstress. Like I
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00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:22.440
could come home so tired and have
set at a desk do enough, like
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quote, nothing all day, right, but it is very important because otherwise,
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you know, we won't survive.
And I learned in the first six
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months in the field and the group
home in California. It's like you either
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leave it at work or you won't
survive. Like, you know, your
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00:31:36.039 --> 00:31:37.559
first inting, I want to take
this get home. They're so sweet and
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00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:41.920
you didn't see the rage and you
also are twenty two year old. I
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00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:45.759
can't do anything about it, right. And so you really have to do
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compartmentalized work, but you also have
to, you know, find ways to
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know that you're doing everything you can
to help the people that you serve.
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You're, I judging them, you're
supporting them and you're finding the best ways
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00:31:59.240 --> 00:32:01.400
you can and you're trying to encourage
that with people that you work with.
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One last questions off the books.
How is this all impacted your faith?
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00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:14.640
M You know, my faith has
been a really strong part of where I
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started with all this and it really
is something that still drives what I do.
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00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:24.920
Like I've always wanted to do mission
work. My parents, my dad
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and my mom, went to Haiti
eleven years in a row and did medical
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00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:34.599
mission work where they pulled teeth and
you know, my dad was a doctor,
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my mom's physical therapist. They went
with about ten or twelve people.
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But it's like I don't have the
time to take a week off or do
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00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:45.160
that, but so I try and
do my mission is every day, like
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I pray on the way to work, I pray on the way home to
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try and be the most effective with
the people that I'm working with and,
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00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:57.440
to be quite frankly, what I've
been doing every day in the last couple
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00:32:57.480 --> 00:33:00.839
weeks is just being grateful, finding
you and multiple things to be grateful for
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in the midst of all these bad
things happened to so many people, both
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00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:09.160
in the you know, in the
world the pandemic that you know, there's
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00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:15.000
so much negative trying to stay away
from the news and I feel like I
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00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:21.880
need data, you know, around
the pandemic, because we have recently had
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00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:25.720
to put a stop on admissions because
we had to we had in January we
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00:33:25.759 --> 00:33:30.480
add a seventy three staff. We
had thirty seven COVID outbricks, and so
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00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:36.759
trying to stay open was important,
but at the same time, you know,
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00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:42.039
trying to not see all the pad
because it's just you brain just gets
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00:33:42.039 --> 00:33:45.119
worn out on this isn't a safe
place, if you knows what it feels
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00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:50.960
like over time. So, but
but I feel like it's strengthens my faith
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00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:55.440
in terms of my job, my
responsibility to be there for somebody else.
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00:33:55.519 --> 00:34:00.480
Okay, well, that's it.
Thank you for being on my show and
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00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:08.039
thanks for being patient with all the
technology issues we've had, mostly on my
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00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:13.000
end, I will say. But
yeah, well, I'm glad we were
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00:34:13.039 --> 00:34:16.239
able to do this. This was
this was great and I appreciate the opportunity
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00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:22.119
to share my thoughts, and certainly
they're mostly just my thoughts right learn and
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00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:28.679
my life experiences and they're not everybody's, but I'm pretty passionate about them for
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00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:34.000
me, and so I appreciate the
opportunity to share it all right thanks guys
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00:34:34.039 --> 00:34:38.159
for listening. We'll be tuned in
next Thursday and you can always follow us
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00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:46.599
on social media and I'll on the
website at Rachel on Recoverycom. Thanks for
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00:34:46.639 -->
listening.
