Hi, this is Rachel on Recovery, we're back with Tyler and he's going to tell the rest of his story.
What are things that can be used for physical evidence? There's a lot, I think that a lot of folks honestly forget some of the more traditional elements that could be, you know, physical evidence that could be sent into a crime lab. Because again, there's this pervasive issue where some folks unfortunately don't believe a child when they disclose. You know, I've actually worked with colleagues recently within the past few years who've told me that evidence like a child's. Garments with alleged biological fluids on them from a perpetrator have been left behind, Rachel. So I mean outside of your traditional, you know, kind of that smoking gun evidence, if you will, look for any evidence that might corroborate A child's claims or that meshes with what they're they're telling you from a disclosure. If they tell you they're, they're hit, for instance, with a fly swatter, I would go and find that fly swatter, right. And I would try to submit that for DNA. If you don't think, and this is a big challenge with labs, that you know, there's going to be a lot of mixtures. We can only do so much in a forensic laboratory with mixtures. We kind of all share DNA up to a certain point. So a two person or three person mixture, most labs can separate out, but you have to think about the context of your case in that manner. You know, if we're talking about that fly swatter, why is it important, if the implement made contact for touch DNA to be around where this child was hit, where you see the pattern imprint, You know that that's something I'd pick up. Likewise, you have to think about the context of your event, you know? Say the child says that they were they were drinking beverages, maybe alcoholic beverages, or they took some medicine before an event of abuse took place. I would look for the cans or the bottles or the cups and see if they're still around. Even if they're in the trash, I'd still try to get them tested in the laboratory. If it falls within their testing policies and procedures. You know, just because something is in, say, a dirty clothes hampered, don't dismiss it. Or if someone's been hiding items and they've been sitting for a long time. Laundered items. I would still
collect those things. There's studies where biological stains can still render DNA profiles after they've been washed or submerged or sitting for an extended. I think our cold case examples we see in the news, Rachel, are good examples of never give up and always be exploring new timelines and be exploring new types of evidence. You know if a child says they were harmed on a carpet or a blanket or if maybe. They touched a certain item or implement. Try to find that item and collect from those sources that corroboration from stains on a carpet or touch DNA that might be on a counter or an implement Use for example, in sexual abuse or physical abuse instances can definitely be helpful. I actually have a manuscript that's coming out in the next few months on the zero abuse website 0abuseproject.org, where you're going to be able to you know anybody that's interested and it can review some of these more innovative avenues for forensic evidence in the context of child maltreatment cases.
I well we will but we're we're so I can send that my way open it you know the IT makes the connection between the crime lab and the in the crime scene if you will. So being able to make that connection for our MDT is really important just to ensure that we're doing due diligence and trying to think you know both inside and outside the box on the traditional in that more typical and atypical types of evidence that we might encounter.
Would you say that like Hollywood, like the CIS, CSI shows, are they, do they, are they accurate or they just, I would encourage our listeners to look up the CSI effect because I think it's very real. In fact, I teach a forensic science course where we talk about this pretty extensively, quite frankly. I think that it's a doubleedged sword. I think it gives people a general awareness of things like DNA and serology, which is body fluid analysis. But I think most of those shows give us unrealistic expectations as to how soon a crime can be resolved, if it can be successfully resolved, what success looks like in those cases. And then it it does establish a principle and a precedence where people really expect you to on scene, be able to effectively get these forensic results. Almost immediately, right? The technology on these shows is oftentimes very misleading and over embellished just to draw the the viewer in and to get them interested. But it's accuracy and authenticity is oftentimes way off base,
right? You have to draw people in. Well it's it's taking how high it would works right reality. And then bending it to to the individual's interest and to draw them in. So that's where, you know this is a good point to talk about where CAST really does help our learners is it really establishes the reality of this work. It is a challenging field even in forensics it's it's challenging to open up a case where there's for example, a child sexual assault and process that evidence and that's where you know, secondary traumatic stress can build up. Toxic stress builds up in our workforce and we need to have a good self-care plan. You know, to that end and make sure that we're taking care of ourselves. But you know, breaking those realities down for students I think is really helpful, especially at the college and university level because again, I don't want someone to get a four year degree under my stead, Rachel, where now they get into the field and it is not what they expected. They were not prepared to make a mandated report. They did not know that abuse would be, you know, when a child discloses this egregious. And so that's where Cass brings the realities to. To them is that we break down those myths and the misconceptions that are out there in popular media and we try to show them the realities and we do that through simulation based learning or problem based learning. Experiential learning is what I feel like is the biggest driver of success for the cast program is we put them in the real setting. We do mock scenes, they have role play where they're talking with family members. And children, they're collecting evidence. They're testifying in court. We do everything we can to bring the real world to them so that in a safe cast environment at their school, they can hone their knowledge and skills and they can go out more effectively in the field and be able to work these cases in real time.
Well, and that's really helpful because I mean. I know there's I mean I've known a lot of people they're looking for a change of pace. They're looking for a job where they can affect change and help and then they get into this and that perspective of what they wanted versus what reality is, is oftentimes you know disharmony, you know and disharmony. And so we we work in the cast programs to give them that that real perspective and I think that it's helped as I mentioned cast is you know to date it's been. Evaluated extensively by the California Evidence Based Clearinghouse for Child Welfare and we actually are to my knowledge the only evidence based child maltreatment curriculum in the US if not the world. So I think that that's something that's a a major point to to highlight here is that this is a program that will help you to better understand. The the true situation when it comes to identifying abuse, recognizing the impact that it has and helping get kids on the road to recovery and effectively investigating these cases. And I mean it's evidence based and we give you all of the materials, especially with these tool kits from the federal government right to to really empower you and to set off on teaching this content. And this can be done again at no cost. So any college or university faculty member that's interested in making change and bringing child maltreatment. You know prevention and intervention content to your your campuses. This is, this is where it's at. This is we want to help everybody. We want to keep good safe.
That's awesome. And I know you guys work really closely with Grace and I know they do that with churches a lot. So it's the, I'm guessing that you have some undergraduate courses. That's a great question. I'm really focused on the perspectives of child maltreatment in the history of the child welfare system. We have a professional systems response course that really focuses on what that multidisciplinary team looks like and how to investigate, testify and and get everything through to adjudication right where we we can dispense justice. And then we have our responding to survivors course that really explores best practices for treatment and and interventions for those at risk families. We also have a global child advocacy course that looks at you know the different lenses of child maltreatment that exist, for example the War on Terror and slavery and trafficking in persons. Now we also have graduate level courses too and and that's where it might align with Grace is that we do have a faith-based course and we have a law school course as well as then a medical school course. So our content is very, very unique and really caters to those professionals within those different lanes of study
okay.
How do you tell? In my professional opinion, it's sort of the same as when there's false testimony that might indicate that a child was not hurt, you know, as a deputy coroner, for example. Another example is, you know, when the individual is telling us that this child died of natural causes, right? Or it was an accident, the evidence, right. That's where when you're starting to determine if a false allegation exists, you know the evidence from all perspectives in the case. Or even the lack of evidence right where we see this, this breakdown, be that from the witnesses or testimony or physical evidence and the like. Those are really good drivers to help identify those areas where falsehoods might lie within a given case.
Okay.
Is there anything else that you would say that you would false allegations? It's. I will tell you on the death investigation side from the child death that may be related to maltreatment, You know, looking at their medical history and their records can tell you if there's been a history where maybe medical neglect was in play, where they might have had historic issues or the trauma or illness. That might be something to consider when it comes to false allegations. Speaking with the family and looking at their reticence, looking at, you know. If they're not talking to you, is it complex trauma or is it something else? You know one of the big components of a a child death investigation, especially when it comes to the Sudi investigations, these infants is conducting a doll reenactment with an anatomical doll, which is in and of itself a whole practice to talk about it. It's very challenging. You need to do this in a very trauma practicing way. But when someone doesn't want to conduct the the doll reenactment. We really need to figure out what that reticence is. Is it apprehension at reenacting this because it's just dramatic and we understand that we can work with a proxy? Or is it because there is something that in that reenactment is going to show the discrepancy that you know, there might have been a false allegation of what truly happened to this child as to how they died. So I always just look at the evidence and the totality of the circumstances to see if there's discrepancies when it comes to false allegations of abuse or non abuse.
Just depending to try and to try and flesh those things out. And that's where having a good multidisciplinary team, you know when it comes to child deaths, having your social workers, your law enforcement on scene, having your pathologists understanding what to look for, having your death investigators tuned in, talking with healthcare providers, those are those are great components to a well defined MDT that can really help you figure out if allegations are. Are valid. And if the situation truly is what has been told to you and just the initial walk through and initial investigation,
well Rachel, I am a child. What do you use for self-care? So I spend a lot of time stuck in the past. There is nothing better than booting up a video game. I'm not going to lie, I actually play video games with some of my first responder friends. I listen to vinyl records. I really am an an oldie but goodie, right? I I don't even mind outside. I've got a hammock. I like to just lay in that and read a good book when it gets a little bit warmer outside. I love movies. I love spending time out on my farm with my family. I've got a big family. One of my kiddos is in the background here even at this point. So he's he's hanging out playing with toys, right. You'll. You'll find me in my home gym quite a bit. I I like to get out and get in nature. We've got a zoo trip planned here soon. So it's it's really getting out and immersing myself, you know in nature. Being present in the moment with my family and friends and just having kind of a diverse blend, a diverse plan Rachel, of different things. So that you know I don't get too burned out on one selfcare strategy and I make sure that I'm diversifying My Portfolio for lack of a better phrase to ensure that I I'm doing everything that I can because this. This world is is challenging even you know just talking about these topics day in and day out, you know it it can be pretty traumatizing. And I think that it's important that we all have a good self-care plan. There was a study conducted on on 1st responders. There's actually a series of studies on this coroner's. What they have found is coroner's do tend to have a high level of secondary traumatic stress where us just being in a situation investigating a death. On behalf of a family is is affecting us, right? Seeing the the decedent, the the deceased individual, the child working through that trauma with the family, it does have impacts on us. Our brains tend to make connections, right? That makes sense to us. And so like we may we may see where a child has the same toy as our own child. We may you know have a triggering event where the situation brings up and invokes past emotions and trauma. We had to be cognizant of that it does cause. Dysfunction and impairment in our ability to do our job. A lot of great, you know, deputy coroners, a lot of great forensic scientists and other MDT's, they leave the field forever because sometimes the the trauma is just too much.
So it's really important that we build on on our self-care plans and that we acknowledge that and that we embrace it. I think there's a big stigma around, you know, for example, accessing with your employment, you know, your employment programs. Mental health services, right. And don't try to tough it out. There was a fantastic article. It was from a medical. It was from a a first responder Emergency medical services, I think it's called Jim's, is the journal's acronym. I think it's the journal of Emergency medical services that just said that suck it up, culture is killing us. And that that just resonated with me. And I use this when I do my Sudi training, you know, across the state of Indiana, nationwide. I always show folks that article. Rachel, because it's just, it's so true, is that we've built this idea, right? And again, go back to the 80s and think about what you've seen. You've seen the John Mclean's, right, the Bruce Willis's that are these turbo cops that they're just out there doing everything. But I mean, the reality is, is that there's a lot of trauma in this work helping get someone propped up, saving a child's life from from imminent danger of maltreatment. It does come at a high cost to us, and so we have to have these kinds of selfcare plans. To really empower ourselves and keep us going because quite frankly, children need those champions out there working the long hours and staying in the field for decades. We need champions.
Oh, yes, we definitely do. Because, I mean, it's child abuse is rampant in this country, in the around the world where you're looking at this. You know, I know that right now. Some of the more recent data shows, oh, child maltreatment went down recently. Well, we had a pandemic that had children sheltering in with their abusers. So I can't really say that that's necessarily an accurate portrayal. I I do think that child maltreatment is there. I think that we only see the tip of the iceberg, the most egregious cases that are getting reported out. So yeah, it's tantamount that we get. Qualified professionals out in the field,
absolutely. So getting back to tell us about the conference that coming up in June, we actually are going to be having this event in June and I do want to ping folks that might be interested about cast that we're going to be having another event downstream in the fall. So in June we're actually going to have the Zero Abuse Project Summit, it's coming up, it's going to be in Orlando, FL June 7th through the 9th. For those of you that are interested in in going somewhere warm and seeking more training on child maltreatment concepts, hey Florida's great. We're going to be having a wide variety of topical presentations and experts in the field that are going to be training the child serving child protection professional to to help them build and hone your investigative skills. Now if you're looking For more information on Cast, please, I just want to make this known. Get a hold of me day or night, anytime. I keep late hours. You can e-mail me at
[email protected].
Please watch our events calendar. Not only are we having the the Summit that's coming up in Florida, but we're also having you know for the Cast team Rachel quarterly Round Table events. We're going to be hosting A seminar here in November to launch our our federally funded Cast toolkits to give every post secondary faculty across the nation and world an opportunity to launch Cast for free for their program of study. That's going to be coming out in November. If you go to our website 0abuseproject.org, and you go to the four professionals tab at the top and then you can actually go to the Child Advocacy Studies subpage. What you're going to be able to find is the Cast website and you can sign up. There's an RSVP for our seminar event at that time. But yeah, we constantly are holding events in different symposiums and trainings. For the cast program and for our other child serving professional training wings
And last question how has this work affected your you might guess my background is is very scientific right. I mean I'm I'm steeped in both education training and just a professional career where scientific logic Rachel and and research and investigation is something. Always in the forefront of my mind. So I think that this work has made me more inquisitive. I do belong to the community of Christchurch. It used to be called the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints. I think that our our denomination is more progressive and and does have some modernized viewpoints that encourage that perspective in me as an individual, you know. I think that we, we learn and make connections then on the front lines, you know as a child serving professional between our living world and a higher power. And I think that this work in particular, I think it does make you question the finer workings and rationale of a higher power. Given that a lot of this work is Rachel, based on somebody being hurt or someone dying and you know those somebody's being children who are one of our most vulnerable populations out there. I think that you know. Instead of abandoning my faith, as some might be want to do in this line of work, I I think that for me, it just helps me to try and better understand faith and to understand our Creator and to better understand and and comprehend their vision for humanity. You know, I was told a long time ago by some of the the spiritual leaders in our church that, you know, I would be tested to to kind of the nth degree that my life would be challenging, which I thought was very interesting. It didn't make sense when I was young. But I do feel that this, this field and this path that I walk is certainly a proving ground for one's faith and their resolve in it. And so I I really think that this, this field makes me always question, and not in a negative way, but to to try and understand scripture and tomes, and to better understand the world in which we live
in and to get a better context as to you know how. How our creator has created us and created this life that we live in. I think it's given me a lot to think about and giving me more context. Okay,
you know, well is there anything else you'd like to add time while we're sharing your story? I think that that definitely matters. I appreciate all that you are doing, Rachel, to bring awareness to. Concepts related to child maltreatment, child abuse, neglect. Again, if people are interested in the CAST program, the Child Advocacy Studies program is that college and university academic program. If you want to launch that at no cost, get a hold of me as the Cast director. Again, 92 programs in 30 states. We want you to to be a part of our cast
[email protected]
to get a hold of me again, please do consider signing up for our cast. Seminar in November on the Zero Abuse Project website. And if you all are interested and want to learn more as a child serving professional, do consider the Project Summit coming up June 7th through the 9th in Orlando, FL. I want to thank you again Rachel, for being so gracious to host several of us from Zero Abuse Project, and thank you for what you're doing to empower folks and to change the lives of children for the better.
Well, thank you. I couldn't do it without you guys. All right, guys, thanks for listening. This is Rachel and recovery TuneIn next Thursday at 10:00 AM for
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