Episode Transcript
WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.960 --> 00:00:04.360
Hi, this is Rachel and recover. We've got a special guests coming back
2
00:00:04.400 --> 00:00:09.679
to finish the show with Annet Shuster, as she's the executive of kids need
3
00:00:09.759 --> 00:00:14.560
to know. This is the second
part. Thank you for listening. Here's
4
00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:20.679
part what are some of the more
innovative treatments out there you find helpful?
5
00:00:23.280 --> 00:00:26.879
Well, the work that you know, I don't know that I could answer
6
00:00:26.960 --> 00:00:33.000
that question as I'm not I'm don't
sit in that you know world. Is
7
00:00:33.039 --> 00:00:40.679
a psychotherapist. I think story work
is essential to all work, but I
8
00:00:40.719 --> 00:00:43.560
also think there's a lot of times
there's a lot of work that needs to
9
00:00:43.600 --> 00:00:47.079
be done before you can get to
story work. So I think that's when
10
00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:51.679
there's a variety of modalities are things
that are helpful, whether it's Amdr whether
11
00:00:51.719 --> 00:00:57.719
it's, you know, it's you've
got to somatic expt you know, therapy
12
00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:02.840
with the body. There's I think
we're the more we learned about the body
13
00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:04.760
and the effects of trauma in the
brain and the body, the more it's
14
00:01:04.799 --> 00:01:10.359
going to help us be effective as
we work with victims. So I think
15
00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:15.640
that I think that's where our world
is right now. We're really continuing to
16
00:01:15.680 --> 00:01:22.359
try to learn and try to apply
the knowledge that we're learning and how to
17
00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:26.879
help victims. And there's so there's
not just one right way. You know,
18
00:01:26.120 --> 00:01:30.359
it's different. You know you have
to dividualize it. There's some things
19
00:01:30.359 --> 00:01:36.879
that are common in marks victims,
for every story is unique. Yes,
20
00:01:37.159 --> 00:01:41.319
I think. I think healing at
some point always a really need to take
21
00:01:41.319 --> 00:01:47.079
place in the context of communities.
Your harm takes place in the context of
22
00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:53.319
relationship and I believe healing needs to
do that. I think individual counseling,
23
00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:59.680
individual therapy, but I also think, you know well run group therapy is
24
00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:05.159
really essential and in learning that you're
not you're not the only one with the
25
00:02:05.239 --> 00:02:09.400
story and not the only one with
the shame. And that isn't to minimize
26
00:02:09.400 --> 00:02:13.800
what you're going through, but that's
one of the things abuse does is isolate
27
00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:20.240
us and we think that we're the
only wants and I find group therapy to
28
00:02:20.360 --> 00:02:25.439
just be such an essential aspect of
healing. You know, I think what
29
00:02:25.479 --> 00:02:30.879
we do in individual work helps prepare
us for group work, but I think
30
00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:38.240
the community work is one of the
most important aspects of being able to to
31
00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:47.120
heal. Now I just the unique
foundation which now is called Suppora, and
32
00:02:47.599 --> 00:02:58.719
they have a whole they have groups
that are for sexual abuse survivors, but
33
00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:02.360
they also have a retreat and it's
like a for day retreat and I met
34
00:03:02.360 --> 00:03:07.120
several goals on there and we stay
in contact and as a survivor myself,
35
00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:09.639
I find it super helpful. And
the retreat is free. You just have
36
00:03:09.719 --> 00:03:14.240
to you just have to pay to
get there. Wow, well, that's
37
00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:17.000
really good. What's so? What? What is their reach? Tell me
38
00:03:17.039 --> 00:03:22.800
a little bit about their retreat.
Well, the retreat is four days and
39
00:03:22.919 --> 00:03:27.039
so they kind of just go into
training about like the brain and how it
40
00:03:27.080 --> 00:03:34.159
works and like the effects of sexual
abuse and like you know, and dealing
41
00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:38.479
with that. But they also have
you do like Yoga and Tai Chei and
42
00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:49.000
all like a in like kickboxing type
stuff and our Mutai, and they also
43
00:03:49.319 --> 00:03:53.800
like have like a professional chef and
he like cooks all these healthy meals for
44
00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:59.960
us. And, you know,
they they just had everything you could possibly
45
00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:03.680
you know, they had everything you
can imagine just set up for you.
46
00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:09.319
And I mean it's you know,
it's a big thing of bringing people together
47
00:04:09.319 --> 00:04:14.560
and getting away from their lives to
find other people that are going through what
48
00:04:14.599 --> 00:04:20.519
they have also been through and it's
I think it's a great program look sounds
49
00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:25.040
like something that definitely like to look
into. I think there's a lot of
50
00:04:25.079 --> 00:04:31.439
good programs out there, but definitely
I haven't heard of any retreats like that
51
00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:35.680
that you're talking about that are free. I know there's, you know,
52
00:04:35.759 --> 00:04:42.879
the work that alander sooner does.
Open Hearts Ministry also has a lay ministry
53
00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:47.240
and they do teach people how to
run groups and they also, you know,
54
00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:51.720
their leaders continue to get to work
on their stories. I think that
55
00:04:51.800 --> 00:05:00.360
there's a lot available for people.
It's just it's definitely being able to find
56
00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:04.000
a place where you feel safe.
It's people who are educated enough not to
57
00:05:04.040 --> 00:05:10.199
cause more harm, because there are
people that you know, you can deepen
58
00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:15.480
the harm that's there if you don't
know what you're doing as well. House
59
00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:18.240
definitely, and I think you know
if you're going to lead those groups.
60
00:05:18.279 --> 00:05:20.680
I mean I don't necessarily think you
need to be counseling, but I do
61
00:05:20.759 --> 00:05:27.759
think you need to have good training
before you start leading those programs. Right
62
00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:30.439
you need to understand the science of
trauma. You need to understand your own
63
00:05:30.439 --> 00:05:35.879
story. You can't help anyone further
along in their story than what you've done
64
00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:42.879
in your own work and whether you're
a professional or whether you're a lay person,
65
00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:46.319
you will have work to do into
the day you go home and so
66
00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:53.160
the day you leave this earth.
And there's you know, most people want
67
00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:55.279
to say, okay, when will
I be done? When will I be
68
00:05:55.319 --> 00:05:59.079
over this? And well, it
will just be different, but there is
69
00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:02.160
always work to do. So I
think the really good leaders, no matter
70
00:06:02.439 --> 00:06:05.879
what their initials are or not,
after the names of the leaders, who
71
00:06:05.879 --> 00:06:13.879
continue to do their work and they
do it in the context to community.
72
00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:21.839
Yes, most definitely. Um.
Okay, next question. What do you
73
00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:36.079
think the community could do to educate
about sexually abuse better? So what can
74
00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:41.759
you help clarify that question for me, like what you and I can do,
75
00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:46.720
or what organizations can do? M
I guess what organizations are. Communities
76
00:06:46.759 --> 00:06:51.040
can do. They can be educated, they could choose to not live in
77
00:06:51.079 --> 00:07:00.480
denial and proactively, out of out
of good solid knowledge, learn what it
78
00:07:00.519 --> 00:07:04.360
takes to help reduce the RISKIC kids
will be abused in their presence, in
79
00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:10.319
their organization, when they're there with
them. And parents need to be educated
80
00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:15.959
because since you've you've interviewed and assaulter
and she gets some great experiences, you
81
00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:23.000
know, not experiences but examples in
her book about not just leaving kids at
82
00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:26.399
sacer practice and going off and doing
your own thing, or, you know,
83
00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:30.920
like actually knowing and being involved where
your kids are, not just dropping
84
00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:36.879
them off, whether it's the music
lessons or so. I think every individual
85
00:07:36.920 --> 00:07:44.240
needs to choose to be educated and
at least be aware so that we can
86
00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:48.319
begin to reduce the risk of kids
being abused. If if we're if we're
87
00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:54.439
willing to be, I think organizations
can't make changes and less individuals are willing
88
00:07:54.560 --> 00:08:00.519
to acknowledge the reality and prevalence of
abuse and the likelihood that somewhere their story
89
00:08:00.639 --> 00:08:07.800
has has that in it. And
when individuals then say really this, we're
90
00:08:07.839 --> 00:08:11.639
done with this, not on our
time, not in our space, then
91
00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:16.079
what love means is that you're proactive, you don't live in denial, educate
92
00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:22.600
yourself, you you do your best
to screen, you know the truth about
93
00:08:22.639 --> 00:08:26.480
perpetrators and how they work and victims
and what they need, and you create
94
00:08:26.519 --> 00:08:31.120
a community that's as safe as it
could possibly be. We're never going to
95
00:08:31.679 --> 00:08:35.840
be able to ensure a hundred percent
that abuse stops, but we can sure
96
00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:46.440
reduce it by being aware and proactive. Okay, and how do you think
97
00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:54.320
the church could do better at responding
to sexual abuse? Oh Gosh, that's
98
00:08:54.320 --> 00:08:58.960
a good one, I think.
First of all, you know, I
99
00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:03.840
think all churches need to actually be
trauma and foreign churches. I feel like
100
00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:09.639
that's just the responsibility of a healthy
church, just to understand trauma and understand
101
00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:15.600
the dynamics of abuse and it.
You're not going to protect your body if
102
00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:18.559
you don't understand abuse. So you're
not going to protect your body if you
103
00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:24.279
don't understand the dynamics of how perpetrators
operate. And White Churches are the safest
104
00:09:24.279 --> 00:09:28.799
place in the world for white churches
are the safest place in the world for
105
00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:33.240
perpetrators. So I think you have
to have leadership that chooses to be aware
106
00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:43.320
and lead and they have to be
able to educate and so when they understand
107
00:09:43.399 --> 00:09:50.919
what safe practices are for reducing risks, for for creating volunteer programs where screening
108
00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:56.440
is adequate. You know, one
of the things when I teach in churches,
109
00:09:56.600 --> 00:10:01.399
one of the pre teaching questions that
I ask Pres our questions is if
110
00:10:01.399 --> 00:10:05.799
you've done a background check, you've
interviewed the person, the background check comes
111
00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:09.919
back clean, then you can be
very confident you don't have a perpetrator that's
112
00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:15.600
volunteering, and almost everybody says yes, and the answer is really no,
113
00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:20.279
because only time you're going to know
for sure if you have a perpetrator is
114
00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:26.440
if they come back because they have, they have been convictive of a crime
115
00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:31.360
and still not not all background checks
are even going to pick those up.
116
00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:35.200
If they're you know you can.
If you look on a sex offender registry,
117
00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:39.440
level one and two sex offenders are
there, but level three sex offenders
118
00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:45.000
are not there. The ones they
don't think, they don't label as likely
119
00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:48.240
to repeat, you're not going to
find them on the sex offender registry.
120
00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:56.559
So understanding. How do you create
an environment where there's accountability work, where
121
00:10:56.600 --> 00:11:01.480
you just have to understand all of
those dynamics in order to help create the
122
00:11:01.480 --> 00:11:07.159
safest environment possible? And when there's
victims, then, because you are trauma
123
00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:13.000
informed, then you'll have resources.
You'll you'll be able to understand how not
124
00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:16.279
to shame a victim, how to
get a victim help. Have Resources for
125
00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:22.639
victims. Have had resources within your
church, whether there's groups where there's counseling,
126
00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:28.879
whether there's a professional counseling. There
has to be resources for them.
127
00:11:28.919 --> 00:11:33.720
And then if there's someone that's a
victim in a church that is accusing somebody
128
00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:39.440
within the church, like say Church
leadership, there's a legal protocol that needs
129
00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:43.600
to be followed and they're never supposed
to become an isolated judge and jury about
130
00:11:43.639 --> 00:11:48.679
whether somebody's guilty or not guilty,
or victims telling the truth or not.
131
00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:54.200
Through the protocol that needs to be
followed and it needs to always be reported
132
00:11:54.279 --> 00:12:00.159
either, depending on who the accused
is, either to the child services or
133
00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:03.519
to the police department. So they
have to be trauma informed. If they're
134
00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:07.440
going to take care of victims,
they have to have programs that are set
135
00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:13.960
up that are meant to provide support
to victims and they need to believe victims.
136
00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:16.919
They need not to be the judge
and jury about whether someone's telling the
137
00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:20.919
truth or not. That's for the
legal system to begin to work on.
138
00:12:24.519 --> 00:12:28.440
and has there been improvement in the
church? Well, I think. I
139
00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:33.519
think there's been improvement. I think, sadly, improvement can't come unless there's
140
00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:41.320
been exposure of tremendous harm. So
I think more churches are aware. Like
141
00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:45.759
if you, if you just,
if you ever felt like doing it,
142
00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:50.320
spending an afternoon and just randomly going
through the churches in your community and looking
143
00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:58.559
at their website, you'll find churches
now that have very clear child protection policies.
144
00:12:58.559 --> 00:13:01.840
If, well, they may say
they want volunteers and their church there
145
00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:05.600
is there is at least a screening
process that they need to go through,
146
00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:09.639
and so I think the churches that
take it seriously you're going to see it
147
00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:18.039
on the front page of what they
do on their websites, and so I
148
00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:24.639
do think that there's improvement. I
also think because of lawsuits, insurance companies
149
00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:31.799
have required churches put some safer practices
into place because if they, you know,
150
00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:37.519
they'll right clauses into the insurance policies
that, if you know, summers
151
00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:41.759
a volunteer or employee of that church
is accused of sexual abuse, there's a
152
00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:46.759
there's a clause in there that they
won't cover it. So I think that,
153
00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:50.799
God is said to me churches more
aware. So I do think that
154
00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:58.000
there's improvement, but gosh there's a
long ways to go. Yeah, I
155
00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:01.639
know a lot of grants right now. To get to get a grant,
156
00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:05.600
you have to like for mental health
fields, they have to be trauma informed.
157
00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:13.440
So I think that's a good policy
to have in place. Last two
158
00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:20.759
questions. What do you do for
self care? MMM, well, that's
159
00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:24.360
a really good question because I have
to work on that. It's an area
160
00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:28.919
where I can certainly improve, but
I think it's a new I mean I
161
00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:33.759
have a lot to balance. I'm
adopting my fifteen year old granddaughter who adoption
162
00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:39.159
will be complete tomorrow. I'm a
lenkal guardian of my nineteen year old grandson
163
00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:45.639
that has a lot of issues.
So just as a kind of parent,
164
00:14:45.879 --> 00:14:50.200
I have to work at self care. So I try to do little things.
165
00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:54.039
You know, they can always be
big things, but try to find
166
00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:58.639
some time every day where I don't
have anything buddy I need to answer to
167
00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:03.480
for anything, whether I just go
sit on my chair and rock in the
168
00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:07.080
backyard a little bit, whether I
kind of practice what I teach and I
169
00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:09.919
get up when I do my morning
pages, so that at least I stay
170
00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:15.240
connected emotionally and all my yet gets
to go someplace and I don't just carry
171
00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:18.879
it around with me. And then
I have friends in community that I know
172
00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:24.360
that I can always turn to when
I need to and every now and then
173
00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:26.879
I try to do fun things.
My friend. Thing is I like going
174
00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:31.039
to baseball games, so I will
go to a baseball game or or when
175
00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:35.600
I can, I will hike or
I love to travel. So but traveling
176
00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:41.559
hasn't been part of life really for
the past few years. How good old
177
00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:48.679
covid? Yeah, good old covid. How has this impacted your faith?
178
00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:52.759
Gosh, I've been all over the
place with my faith. So when you
179
00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:58.200
say this, what do you mean
by this? Like your work with sexual
180
00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:04.399
abuse, being sexually abused? I
guess all of them. I think we
181
00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:11.399
probably need a lot of years to
unpack that one. I've just gone.
182
00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:17.679
I've gotten through seasons of believing,
believing God was good and I was bad.
183
00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:23.840
I believe God is a perpetrator and
I was the victim. I've hated
184
00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:30.159
God, I've tried to disown God. I angry, angry, angry,
185
00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:40.200
and yet it at the same time
it's really it's my home base and through
186
00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:44.799
all of these years of wrestling,
it's like there's so much I just don't
187
00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:51.480
understand right. I can't comprehend.
I can't comprehend the harm that takes place
188
00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:53.840
in this world and the suffering that
takes place in this world and not just
189
00:16:53.879 --> 00:17:02.639
through sexual abuse and get the same
time, at this point in my life
190
00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:07.519
anyway, I can also come back
to a place of and I don't get
191
00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:11.920
it, but I really believe my
safe place is God and that he is
192
00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:15.640
good, that he is loving,
and I just don't get it a lot
193
00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:22.839
of times. So sometimes nature is
what brings me back to that reality,
194
00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:27.440
you know. Like you know,
I find peace so much in nature and
195
00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:33.039
I think that is a gift that
reminds me that that there really is something
196
00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:37.079
bigger than myself. And then,
you know, I know where I've come
197
00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:38.799
from in my story and where I
am now, and I certainly did get
198
00:17:38.839 --> 00:17:45.519
there on my own, and so
it helps me really hold old faith for
199
00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:52.079
others that just they don't have any
and they can't see beyond their pain and
200
00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:57.599
their hopelessness. So I don't know
that I've really answered your question, but
201
00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:07.519
it's certainly rather it's not a it's
not my relationship with God is certainly not
202
00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:12.440
a relationship, but there's not a
lot of wrestling. Well, I think
203
00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:15.319
all of us can at acknowledge that
at some point in our line. I
204
00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:22.200
mean and and I can get done
in meeting someone and I don't know swhere.
205
00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:23.960
Words are appropriate here. So I'll
just try not to but I'll just
206
00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:30.599
say, what are you thinking,
God, like, really like, I
207
00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:34.920
don't I just don't get you.
But it doesn't turn into like it did
208
00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:37.759
at one point in my life,
two years of rage. It's just like
209
00:18:40.839 --> 00:18:45.759
I don't get you. And yet, you know, I know when I
210
00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:48.640
go to bed at night, I
have some stuff that I listened to and
211
00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:52.759
it's like, okay, that's okay, I can come to a place of
212
00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:59.160
comfort and rest at this moment in
time. And so I don't know,
213
00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:06.599
it's a it's definitely made my faith
very living, very alive, very real.
214
00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:11.880
I can I can be mad and
you swearing it got in and really
215
00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:18.000
love him deeply and be worshiping him
also, maybe not a bipolar but I
216
00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:22.960
don't know, all over the place. It's just what's real. You know
217
00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:27.279
well, I mean I think when
we deal with the stuff, especially day
218
00:19:27.319 --> 00:19:33.839
in a day out, Hey,
it makes this question things and depend on
219
00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:40.759
him more than we ever thought we
we would need to be dependent on him.
220
00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:45.400
Right, and and yet as much
as like I love him, I
221
00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:51.880
just don't get it most of the
time and and I just I often I'd
222
00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:56.160
like, really, I don't get
it. I just I don't get it.
223
00:19:56.279 --> 00:20:02.279
And yet took a thing. I
don't have to figure it all out,
224
00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:04.359
because if I had to come to
all my own conclusions, then I
225
00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:11.119
probably be really angry, bitter and
a harmful force in this world rather than
226
00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:15.559
trying to be a helpful force.
Aparenthot, I had my season of life
227
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:18.640
where I was so waging angry that
I was more of a harmful force,
228
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:27.400
and I then helpful now. I
think many survivors feel that way at some
229
00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:33.319
point. Well, when I finally
believed I had permission to be mad at
230
00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:37.079
God, boy as I'm ad all
those years of believing it was wrong,
231
00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:42.200
I took care of that one.
And there was such a gift because,
232
00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:45.599
you know, he didn't strike me
dead, he didn't lightning, didn't come
233
00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:53.039
down, he didn't just sell me. Well, okay, maybe nothing can
234
00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:57.160
separate me from the love of God, even my doubts, more like a
235
00:20:57.240 --> 00:21:03.039
faith at times. Fair enough.
Anything else you would like to add before
236
00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:07.279
we wrap up? No, I
don't. I don't think so. Thank
237
00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:11.440
you for the your patience and getting
this all together and for the work you
238
00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:15.920
do in the stories you listen to. I mean you're a survivor trying to
239
00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:19.759
help others. So thank you for
inviting me into that journey with you.
240
00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:25.759
Well, thank you for letting me
be in yours. All Right, Ladies
241
00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:33.880
and gentlemen, we're wrapping up here
and hope to hope to catch you next
242
00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:40.720
Thursday and we'll have a new episode. And always follow us on social media
243
00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:44.640
and find us on your favorite podcast
and, if not, always come to
244
00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:48.599
Rachel and Recoverycom. Thanks. Thank
you.
