Episode Transcript
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Hi, this is Rachel and Recovery
a special guest Amber. She's a survivor
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of having a borderline mother. Amber, just tell us a little bit about
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yourself. Hi, everybody, my
name is Amber and Um. I am
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a speech language pathologist. I'm twenty
nine, and I am a survivor of
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a BPD mom. Um. Today, in my answers, I'm going to
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keep kind of vague, not that
my mom, you know, listen to
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any podcast, because I don't think
she does. But on that off chance
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and for my own personal anxiety's sake, I will just leave out you know,
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names, specific places, but I
will you know, describe the general
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consensus of what happened. But yeah, that's basically me. Okay, Um,
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when did you realize something wasn't right
with your mom? I've always had
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if she was with my mom?
Uh, the real issue started when I
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was the teen, which I'm not
sure it's kind of if that's a typical
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pattern for a bp D mom,
but you know, that's when kids start
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to develop independence. They want to
you know, develop their own identity and
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kind of separate from their parents.
Um. But I finally started to get
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an inkling that something was actually wrong
in college. I remember specifically, there
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was one night in grad school.
I was actually it was pouring down rain.
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I was in the parking lot of
my church, actually, and I
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was on the phone of my aunt, who was actually my mom's sister,
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and I just remember sobbing, sobbing
because I finally figured it out. Um,
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my mom has always had a ton
of relationship issues, you know,
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but it's always their faults. She's
always the victim, so her entire family,
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her sister, she's never had a
good relationship with, She's never had
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a good relationship with, you know, and flows with her coworkers and friendships
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as well. Just you know,
personal relationships have always ebbed and flowed,
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and there's always been these major issues. And you know, I've always had
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issues with her as well. And
so I remember kind of looking up different
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personality disorders are kind of just mental
health issues, and I discovered borderline personality
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disorder one day, and honestly,
I kind of forget how all came about.
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I don't know if I just typed
my mom's symptoms, because my mom
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is very all or nothing. Um
you know, she'll go from zero to
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one hundred and you know, point
to seconds. Um, so I don't
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know if I just typed in symptoms
and then borderline came up and then I
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read it and I was like,
oh my gosh, this is on her.
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And you know when I compared and
contrasted it to narcissism and other things
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too, But after reading borderline,
it was like, this is it.
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And so it was that night when
I was talking to my aunt, I
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was like, this, this is
what she has. I just know what.
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I was so confident about it.
Um. Um, how was your
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mother's BPD affecting your education? Uh? Well, I went as far as
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I could for grad school. I
went clear across the country. Actually.
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Um. She later told me that
I abandoned her. So that was nice
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little comment, just trying to you
know, get educated and also you know,
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make a life for myself and quote
unquote you know, and abandoning her.
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Um. But I wanted to say
it really has affected my education.
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My mom is a pretty driven person
and so I mean, if anything,
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it just motivated me to be more
educated. I don't I don't know,
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but I don't think it really affected
me that much other than kind of that
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one comment and then me wanting to
go very far away for God's school.
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Has this affected your ability to date? So? I dated glad a few
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marry sister, which I know is
definitely a pattern of people who have survived
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BPD parents. UM. Dated a
lot of guys that you know, you
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feel like you're in a problem in
the relationship. And I don't even want
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to say relationship. I I have
not had long relationships with men. Uh.
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Typically it lasts between one month to
three months. UM. I really
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haven't gone past that because I I
want to either freak out. That would
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actually happened a lot in college where
I just would kind of go into this
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panic after about the third deep and
I would just be so worried about you
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know, getting too serious and then
getting either getting my heartbroken or worse,
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getting married to that person and then
finding out that they're not who I thought
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they were, that you know,
they're a narcissist or they're a bad person,
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and so I would just end it. Um. But then I went
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on this long string of dating just
really narcissistic guys for longer than I should
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have, and just feeling really bad
in that relationship and not feeling loved or
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respected. UM. So, to
answer your question, I developed a very
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intense avoided attachment style. Uh.
And then I've always really struggled with a
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significant inferiority complex as well, which
has affected my confidence within a relationship.
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So, you know, dating a
narcissist, they always make you feel really
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good at the beginning and then they
make you feel bad, like once they
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have you on the hook, then
that's when they're like, you know,
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they start to take advantage of you, and so but you know, not
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having a lot of confidence, you're
kind of it just kind of left me
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feeling like I deserved it, I
guess. But now after lots of therapy,
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uh, and I have endured that
streak and I have not been dating
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a lot of really good guys um, but still just kind of struggled.
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So I just started actually with a
new therapist who specializes in dating. So
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I think that, um, I
think that'll be really hopeful for my recovery
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in that area. Specifically, I'm
always the anxious dating the avoid it,
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so I get that. Seriously,
yeah, they really are. Um,
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how has this affected your career?
So, like I said, it hasn't.
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It hasn't affected my career really as
a whole, but it did affect
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my first real job out of grad
school. Um it was right around my
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parents divorce and I started suffering from
real, a really really severe depression.
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Ah. And so after about six
months, I got let go for my
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first job, which was not super
affirming in the sense that, you know,
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I just got all this education and
it was like, am I even
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good at this? Um so yeah. So I would say that that was
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probably the biggest part of my life
that was affected by UM my BBD BPD
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parent um so yeah. So and
during that those six months, that's when
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my depression and anxiety started to get
really really severe, and I hadn't realized
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it, and so I think it
definitely affected my work. So I can
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pretty much guarantee that I really was
not the best employee. I can pretty
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much guarantee it because I was just
so depressed that I was pretty much just
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not I wasn't functioning, but almost
from an out of body experience, you
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know, I was just kind of
an autopilot. But I probably wasn't the
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most optimal lengthly, so I don't
fault my boss for letting me go,
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but it was definitely not It was
also a very toxic workplace, which didn't
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help my box was according to my
therapist at the time. My boss may
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have struggled with some sort of mental
health issue like b p D. She
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was very, very um, you
know, she would be highs and low.
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She would, you know, one
day she would love you, the
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next day she would hate you and
talk about all the you know, the
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bad things you were doing in your
job and how incompetent you were and whatever
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it may be. And she got
really personal too. With one of our
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therapists who was struggling with anxiety and
her weight. She suggested going to the
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gym, and she gave her this
exercise or diet book or something. And
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for me, she she had made
some I forget what they do and were
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she made some personal suggestions. She's
like, you really struggle with confidence.
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You need to start working on that. And so she got really personal,
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which is kind of inappropriate for a
box to do. So, I mean,
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it wasn't the best work situation in
general, to be honest, but
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it definitely was affected by my issues
with bab D. I think I would
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have handled it a lot better too. I just kind of was a pincushion
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for several months and then finally stood
up for myself. And that's when she
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finally let me go. She realized
she couldn't control me because I finally would
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just had this realization. I'm like, no, you're not gonna You've been
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doing this to the other therapists and
you're not going to do it to me.
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So, but that's probably been the
biggest time it's affected me, I
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would say, their most significant time. It's affectively, you are more prone
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to end up in those types of
environments because of your past, I would
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say, so exactly, I'm a
therapist, say one time that you you
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experience something over and over and over
again until you learn it. So I
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don't know if that's just kind of
a universe thing or if it's just we
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put ourselves in those positions. We
just naturally are, you know, attracted
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to those types of situations. I
don't really know which one it is,
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but we definitely find ourselves in situations
with those kind of toxic people. More
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so I think for other people who
don't suffer from those experiences. To us,
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exactly, that's what I resent.
It's familiar, it's comfortable, it's
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what, it's normal, it's what
we know. So it's what we're naturally
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attracted to. Um, how has
this affected your own mental health. Um.
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So, like I was explaining,
I went through a severe season of
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depression and anxiety. I actually was
waking up nightly with panic attacks for a
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while. So it would be like
two in the morning, I'd be sound
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asleep, and it took me,
you know, take me forever to fall
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asleep to begin with, and so
I'd finally be asleep and then you know,
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in the middle of the night,
I wake up just my heart racing,
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racing for no reason. I wasn't
even really having anxious thoughts. I
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wasn't even really having a nightmare or
anything. Just randomly I would have these
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panic attacks, and when they first
started off happening, I thought I had
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had a stroke, and so I
went to the doctor, actually went to
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the er, and they did,
um they did a couple of tests and
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they were like, you're fine.
I think they did a cat scan or
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something. But it was just something
I hadn't experienced myself. Um And so
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yeah, So it was about six
months of severe, severe, severe depression
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and anxiety, to the point where
I was very out of body, like
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I was completely numb, and it
felt like I was looking at myself from
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up above, which I know some
people have experienced. And then I completely
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lost my sense of taste. So
every time I tasted food, it just
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tasted like concrete and it was a
very weird experience. And I don't know
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if anyone's ever experienced that before,
but it legitimately just I can't even describe
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the taste. It just didn't have
any taste anymore. And so, um
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yeah. It wasn't until a friend
from back home noticed how bad I was,
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UM and she actually sent me on
a plane home basically, which I'll
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explain a little bit more in detail
later, but that's what I was able
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to get on medication and um,
which definitely helped me. In medication.
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I don't believe it's for everyone,
and it's it's very circumstantial, but if
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you need it, you need it. So yeah, and um so medication.
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I've been on medication ever since and
that has dramatically changed affect health,
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including headaches. UM. I wouldn't
say it's affected my physical health too much.
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I get tension headaches, but it's
more related to poor posture than mental
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health, I believe. Um.
It sound really affected my sleep patterns.
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I feel tired most of the time, even if I've had eight or more
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hours of sleep. Uh, And
that's something that I'm really really focusing on
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this year, and I'm trying to
remedy with therapy and exercise and you know,
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vitamins, especially vitamin D. I'm
really love on vitamin D, so
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I've been trying to take more of
that. Um. And then during my
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initial experience of depression, I did
have symptoms of hypothyroidism. Um, so
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I had low and I'm gonna forget
the exact TMG or TSH levels. I
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forget exactly the the the letters.
But so I was taking hyper thyroid medication
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love with a roxin for a couple
of years until my thyroid levels kind of
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um normalized. Uh. But other
than that, I mean, I probably
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eat more than I should, like
you know, but that's nothing outside of
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that. Really, I would say
it has affected my physical like some people
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who have borderline mothers to have hyper
thyroid problems, so you're not alone in
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that. And that's actually well,
the thyroid controls almost everything to do with
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torn So yeah, that's the kind
of what I've read too, So it
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does make sense. Um, And
a lot of my doctors said, you
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know, you'll never grow it.
You'll never outgrow it. It's something that
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you're just gonna live with. But
my levels, I think we're so they
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weren't super extremely off. I think
it was just because of stress and everything
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and just what I was dealing with
with my vp D mom at the time.
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That now with you know, reduced
stressed and more managed anxiety. I
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think that you know, because I've
gotten my levels tested for the past couple
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of years and they evolve been normal
now so that I have read that thyroid
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ishes are very very common. M
H. What has been the most helpful
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tool with I'm dealing with a poor
lying parent. Boundaries And when I wrote
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this down Night capitalized because founders are
the hardest, hardest, hardest thing to
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do. Um. But there that
definitely the most worth while. UM.
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So boundaries and lots and lots of
therapy, I would say, um,
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after a lot of research. So
I did a ton of research when I
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kind of discovered this. I was
always I started therapy when I discovered my
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mom had issues, and then I
started doing a ton of research about borderline.
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I bought a ton of books.
UM. I'm sure a lot of
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your listeners who have bp TE moms, they've read the book Understanding the Borderline
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Mother by Christine and Lawson, which
is like the libel of BPD. Um
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so that really helped me. And
my mom is a queen mother with waif
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characteristics as well. Um so that's
kind of a little bit about my mom.
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But um but yeah, I finally
just made the decision that I would
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keep her in my life with a
set of really stricted boundaries, and if
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she continued to violate my boundaries,
I would have to accept that she will
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no longer be in my life.
So basically I came to the under standing
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my mom is who she is.
I you know, tried therapy with her.
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We went to two therapy sessions and
it was disastrous. I went to
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actually, she had gone to a
therapist a couple of times going through her
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done works, and so I suggested
going to this therapist because she knew her
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and she was it was her therapist
she had gone to a couple of times,
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and it was that therapist who literally
looked at my mom and was like,
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you know what, you have to
make changes, Like you are the
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one who has to make changes,
not your daughter and or your sevings.
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And my brother had come with us
too, and it was just disastrous.
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Um. She actually recorded the session
and later played it for people, so
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that I think she didn't know it
was done secretly in her purse. So
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yeah, so I finally accepted.
You know, I have done all the
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therapy I can. I've read all
the book. I have done everything on
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my end to try to remedy this, and I've tried talking to my mom
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about things. Every time I would
bring up something to my mom that had
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affected me, Like one thing specifically
was she definitely tried to live vicariously through
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me and junior high in high school, and that was a really really big
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issue because it kind of just morphed
our identities into one. I never really
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was able to develop my own identity
because she was always covering and there,
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and she wanted to just be a
part of everything. And that was something
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that I brought up to her,
Um that I really affected me, And
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you know, I think it was
like a day or two later she stormed
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into my room and was like,
I can't believe you said that. You're
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basically accusing me of being a terrible
mother. And I spent so much time
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and money on you, and you're
accusing me of being a bad mother,
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and all of a sudden, my
trauma and my experience was completely ignored and
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it was all about hurt. So
but yeah, So after trying to discuss
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my issues with her, you know, have a mature conversations, aarchy,
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reading books, educated myself, I
fact only came to the realization that if
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she truly has borderline, which I
believe she does, I mean she's undiagnosed,
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she won't want a therapy. But
um, she can't ever rationalize.
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She will never be able to rationalize, and there's something in her brain that's
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creating a brick wall that does not
allow her to And if that's her fault
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or it's not her fault, whatever
the case may be, the reality is
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she can't. So I just had
to accept that. So I was like,
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like I was kind of saying,
I had two options. Either I
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keep her in my life with a
set of strict boundaries because that's the only
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way to protect myself. Um,
or if she by late to those boundaries
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and she's out of my life.
And I had to accept that too.
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So they kind of to accept that
there might be a time in my life
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I might not have a mom um. And then I also had to accept
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that my mom will never be the
mom that I had wanted, that I
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had seen in movies or I had
seen my friends grew up with, and
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she will never be that. And
yes it's sad, and yes I've had
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to process that, but it does
me no good to dwell in that for
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the rest of my life because the
reality is that will never change. So
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wishing she was different, wishing she
was better, won't help me, you
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know, And it will never help
me succeed. It will never help me
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get better because it will never change, you know. Wishing my dog was
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a cat does me no good because
he can never be a cat. He
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will always be a dog. So
wishing my mom was someone different than she
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is, it's just a fool's Errand
you know, so that's kind of then,
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I guess my most helpful tool besides
I mean, but that's a tool
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that I kind of got to you
through therapy, So I would say therapy
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helped me get there, and then
obviously educating myself. And then groups are
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also whopleful group who's dealing with borderlines. It's a fantastic organization and it's free
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and they have courses and all kinds
of resources that are super helpful. And
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the biggest thing I feel like with
any sort of trauma is having a community
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of people. When you talk about
something, somebody else is like, yes,
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I undertook stand exactly what you're going
through, because it can be so
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isolating otherwise mm hmm. Yeah,
having groups is so helpful because it really
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just affirms what you're going through too. Because my my issue throughout whole life
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slash kind of my current issue,
to be honest, because me and my
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mom have actually gone through a span
of time where things have been really good
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between us, and so during those
times, I mean, which is right
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now, we've been really really good
for quite a quite a bit a long
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stretch right now, And so those
long stretches, they'll make me question myself
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and I go back to this place
of you know, maybe I was wrong,
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Like maybe it was me just being
selfish, or I was just being
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a brat or whatever, um or
maybe I was just being dramatic, or
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I was just feeling sorry for myself. You know, my mom is really
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great. Um. So it really
helps to go to groups because it's a
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reminder like, Okay, no,
I wasn't wrong. I was I was
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very right, and I have a
group of people who also understand and and
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you know, it's different because every
borderline mom is different, they have a
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different characteristic, like it lists in
the book the Christine and Lawson one.
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There's four different types, right,
four different types, and the Queen,
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the waifs, the witch, and
the definitely so everyone thinks, so,
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yeah, she was your mom and
the queen and okay, same as than
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queen. Well, it just depended
on the day, and then the witch
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occasionally came out. But I mean, for the most part, most borderlines
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are never witches for very long if
never. But yeah, I know The
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Witch Doctor was a little hard for
me to read because that one just my
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mom didn't really have many witch tendencies, but having a witch mother would be
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traumatic. Most most of them are
either combination of two, and then the
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witch occasionally comes out. There are
very few actual like very majority, which
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which is a very like minimal aspect
at least that's what I read, and
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I underst it, and I don't
think a lot of children would even survive
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a which another and they just they
don't make it. Not so I was
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reading too, and that's why it
was hard for me to read that chapter
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because it kind of seemed that way
that a lot of kids wouldn't survive which
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mother so which is perfect, but
those are kind of I mean, those
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are the one offs that you see
on you know, the documents, so
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which it's very rare and luckily,
I mean I felt like sometimes she even
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had hermit tendencies, but those were
kind of rare to but I feel like
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those were just classifications. But I
definitely say she's waife and queen. So
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yeah, that being said, though
groups you know, are helpful, everyone's
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experience is going to be a little
different because every mom is going to have
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different characteristics, hi, and they're
going to it. You know, everyone's
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00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:06.160
going to have different experiences, but
the majority, you know, the majority
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of symptoms are the same. And
so it's just nice to have a group
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to relate to. And you know, when um, you know, when
305
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you're having a hard day, it's
just nice to have someone a text.
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Like I have one person soul from
the group thought will text me and be
307
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like I'm just having a hard day
or like I just need advice, and
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you know, it's just it's just
nice to have someone there. You know,
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I completely understand, all right,
how has this impacted your finances?
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So finances um. I also said
that I don't think it really has impacted
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my finances except for having to pay
for therapy. Like I've been saying,
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therapy is so important to me that
I've always paid out of pocket for a
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good therapist that fit my needs rather
than just going to one that was covered
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by my insurance. Um. Because
yeah, the ones that I've I've encountered
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through insurance just haven't been super great. And typically they're really only there if
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you're suicidal, like if you're gonna
if you're about to kill yourself. That's
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what they're there for. And so
from my experience, they haven't really been
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super helpful for you know, actually
gaining progress and learning tools to kind of
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survive. So I've always stayed out
of pocket, which is expensive. Mine
320
00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:36.440
is like a hundred fifty bucks and
um, so I go every two weeks,
321
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and you know, I haven't.
I'm in a pretty good financial situation
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right now. I'm decent, like
I'm able to pay my bills. Um.
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I don't have much left over,
but I'm able to pay my bills
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right now. But even when I
was less financially independent, it's always been
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something that's very important to me because
you know, in the in our life
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fan, you know, if I've
got seventy eight years left on this earth,
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i would rather be three poorer every
month to get better early, you
328
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know, then to wait till I
was fifty and then decide I'm going to
329
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get that. You know, I
just see that as years wasted. I'm
330
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like, I'd rather just get better
now, spend the money, and you
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know, if I have to skip
out on things that, you know,
332
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like getting my hair on or something, then that's a sacrifice I'm willing to
333
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make to get better because I just
I don't like feeling miserable, and I
334
00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:37.680
was miserable for so long, and
I just kind of made that choice.
335
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I'm like, I'm gonna be on
this earth. I you know, I
336
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:45.359
have two choices. I'm either going
to be on this earth and happy or
337
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not on this earth. So I'm
obviously not suicidal, so that's I'm not
338
00:27:51.400 --> 00:27:52.880
going to make that choice. So
if I don't make that choice, I'm
339
00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:56.640
going to be on this earth and
I'm gonna be alive. So I'm gonna
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do my best to make sure that
I make it worthwhile for myself and then
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I'm not miserable, and then I'm
actually happy and I find some joy.
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00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:10.279
So that probably be the biggest impact, I say, financially, other than
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I do struggle with bin shopping.
Sometimes I wouldn't say bin shopping like going
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not. I don't. I don't
go to the mall and spend a thousand
345
00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:23.240
bucks in one sitting. But I'm
definitely not the most cautious when it comes
346
00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:29.799
to my credit cards sometimes. So
that's something that I probably learned from my
347
00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:37.480
mom that I have been trying to
remedy. I think spin different ways and
348
00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:42.680
different outlets dealing with trauma in some
sort of fashion, and shopping is definitely
349
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one I think many of us are
guilty of doing. Not all, but
350
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:55.599
it's a very common one. Yeah, it's so easy, you know,
351
00:28:55.759 --> 00:29:00.079
especially with Amazon and credit cards.
It's like I need this, I'm gonna
352
00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:03.119
get it so and you can get
it in an instant, you know,
353
00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:10.799
It's just so easy. So that's
definitely been my struggle. But when I've
354
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:15.359
been working on this past year is
really just being sitting and being still.
355
00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:18.680
I actually got a tattoo for the
first time, and it says be still,
356
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:23.920
be still and know that I am
God has been a really important verse
357
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:30.079
to me. Um, just like
being still being present, you know,
358
00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:33.559
almost meditating on your blessings, I
think has helped me, and I don't
359
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:37.200
I've not always gone about this,
but sitting down and being like, listen,
360
00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:38.759
I have a roof over my head, I have, you know,
361
00:29:38.920 --> 00:29:45.480
great friends, I've got a job
that helps me afford groceries, you know.
362
00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:48.599
And I think the more that I
do that it helps me spend less
363
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:53.960
because I'm more I'm more just grateful
for what I have rather than than what
364
00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:57.920
I don't have. And I remember
people saying, you know, do a
365
00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:03.519
blessings list or gratitude list every day, and therapists have suggested that to me,
366
00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:07.200
and it just sounds annoying to me. And I don't think it's something
367
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you need to do on a daily
basis. I mean, it would definitely
368
00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:12.359
help if people did, but I
don't think it really works for me to
369
00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:17.720
do on a daily basis. But
what I am feeling like super spendy or
370
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:22.519
super like I want all these things
that I don't have. UM, that
371
00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:23.599
does help me a lot, just
to kind of sit and be like,
372
00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:27.880
listen, I have a lot of
great things that five years ago I wanted
373
00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:33.279
like five years ago I didn't have
and this was my dream and now I
374
00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:36.599
have it, And so I just
really need to be grateful and sit and
375
00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:40.359
enjoy enjoy what I have, because
I feel like a lot of times,
376
00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:44.519
especially our current generation, we don't
really enjoy what we have. We said
377
00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:48.519
they're wishing for things we don't have. Well, I think you know that
378
00:30:48.200 --> 00:30:56.079
we definitely have too much stuff in
general, especially in America. Ah,
379
00:30:57.400 --> 00:31:03.960
but yes, you think. I
think there's one lady she did a book.
380
00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:08.559
I can't remember her name, but
it's on like you can rewire your
381
00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:15.559
brain by being thinks like ah,
by working on gratitude, like it actually
382
00:31:15.640 --> 00:31:18.680
rewires your brain. So I don't
know if doing it every day, but
383
00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:22.759
definitely making it maybe part of your
weekly routine of just being like, hey,
384
00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:26.000
I am thankful for this, and
I'm thankful for this, and God
385
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:32.759
has taken care of this and this, and I feel like that just is
386
00:31:32.839 --> 00:31:38.359
helpful, especially if we're dealing with
shopping addictions or just overspending in general,
387
00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:42.799
because I mean, not everything is
addiction. Even if you know you want
388
00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:45.279
to buy, Oh, I should
have bought that, but I bought it
389
00:31:45.319 --> 00:31:52.960
because it was fun. So,
so, how has this impacted your ah,
390
00:31:53.960 --> 00:32:04.680
social life? Rumble and social anxiety
has been uh kind of two big
391
00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:08.599
ones. I would go through spurts
where I would get intense anxiety and large
392
00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:14.359
groups. Um So, I'd often
have to excuse myself to the bathroom or
393
00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:19.000
I would just leave. I would
even stutter over my words, and I'd
394
00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:23.799
almost have this blackout experience, um
where I just you know, my thoughts
395
00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:28.319
would just blackout. They would just
disappear, and it would almost be like
396
00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:34.240
a deer in the headlights kind of
situation. Um So, and that actually
397
00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:37.640
still happens to me. Um,
but I'm just way better at managing it.
398
00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:44.039
So, I mean I still kind
of I still get anxiety in large
399
00:32:44.079 --> 00:32:46.519
groups, and I still start to
stutter over my words. So I guess
400
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:50.720
that's how I manage it now,
is I just try to breathe and I
401
00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:54.119
just try to pause and really think
about my thoughts and what I'm about to
402
00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:59.279
say, and that kind of helps
me. And then I just keep reminding
403
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:05.119
myself I'm I'm okay, like I'm
fine, and then typically finding someone in
404
00:33:05.240 --> 00:33:09.160
that group that I can talk to
helps and I'm definitely better on one on
405
00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:15.400
one situation. So if I'm in
large groups like at a party or at
406
00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:19.160
a church group or something, having
just one person to talk to typically will
407
00:33:19.160 --> 00:33:22.839
help me. But it's still something
I struggle with. But I'm I'm better
408
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:25.000
at managing. Yeah, I know
that can be helpful for a lot of
409
00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:32.960
people, especially if you struggle with
socialist So yeah, just I know,
410
00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:37.599
I mean I'm an extrovert, but
I mean still sometimes I'm just like,
411
00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:44.279
I'd rather a small group of people
than a big group because I can sometimes
412
00:33:44.359 --> 00:33:52.400
feel overwhelming. I'm actually an extrovert
too, and I remember, I think
413
00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:54.519
it was in grad school that was
really when the this is you know,
414
00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:58.200
a couple of years ago, maybe
five or five or six years ago,
415
00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:00.039
when personality tests were kind of the
big thing. I know they're still big
416
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:05.839
now, but you know, the
angiogram and the Myers Briggs and everything has
417
00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:09.639
always been like extrapt for extrovert and
friends has told me before that I'm the
418
00:34:09.719 --> 00:34:15.239
biggest extrovert that they know, and
I think it's a combination. I am
419
00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:19.599
very extroverted because I really do get
energy for other people, but a lot
420
00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:22.320
of it I think Steven from codependence
for a while too, So I was
421
00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:28.199
very codependent on people, and I
really just obviously dependent on them for my
422
00:34:28.360 --> 00:34:35.760
emotional regulation, which I've managed um
and kind of healed from more so.
423
00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:40.159
Uh, but I'm definitely extroverted.
And I remember in grad school like praying
424
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:45.000
to God one time I was so
upset. I was like, God,
425
00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:52.039
why did you make me an extrovert? Was social anxiety like like this song,
426
00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:57.559
like I don't like being by myself. I get no energy from being
427
00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:00.360
by myself. I've tried, but
every time I'm with people, I get
428
00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:06.880
anxiety, and it's just this double
edged sword. And so I remember specifically
429
00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:12.800
like having a coverization when I'm like, I'm just pissed, like this sucks.
430
00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:19.960
So but obviously I'm better at managing
my social anxiety now and so I'm
431
00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:25.239
able to get my energy from being
with people without also going into this ancious
432
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:31.039
anxious mess. You know. Next
question, what advice would you give children
433
00:35:31.239 --> 00:35:42.760
with borderline parents boundaries? Which again
I capitalized and underlined when I was taking
434
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:47.800
notes. Uh, and lots lots
of therapy. Um, But really a
435
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:52.199
lot of people say therapies the answer, But it's not just therapy that is
436
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:55.480
the answer. In my opinion,
it's the mindset. You really really have
437
00:35:55.719 --> 00:36:00.679
to want to get better, and
you really have to follow through with the
438
00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:06.079
advice from your therapist. Like you
have to understand that you're learning all the
439
00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:08.800
things you didn't know you didn't know, and you're relearning a lot of things
440
00:36:08.840 --> 00:36:14.159
about regular life that you thought were
normal, UM, but that aren't.
441
00:36:14.320 --> 00:36:17.239
They're not normal. It's not normal
to have you know, it's super dysfunctional,
442
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:22.760
stressful childhood. That's not normal.
That's not how it was designed to
443
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:29.039
be. UM. And you'll never
ever get better if you're not open to
444
00:36:29.079 --> 00:36:31.880
the process. So if you just
go into therapy, if you go into
445
00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:37.760
therapy thinking make it's you know,
it's quick, you know, a quick
446
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:43.519
thick Yeah, exactly, Like like
the physical act of going to therapy is
447
00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:46.559
the solution, and it's not.
It's actually listening to what they have to
448
00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:51.039
say. And because you have to
redevelop, like you were saying, you
449
00:36:51.079 --> 00:36:54.400
have to rewire your brain and you
have to redevelop these thinking patterns that you've
450
00:36:54.440 --> 00:37:00.360
had your whole life. And you
have to have tools for dealing with your
451
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:05.280
struggles like anxiety or social anxiety or
depression. You have to have tools in
452
00:37:05.360 --> 00:37:08.639
your toolbox or else you're really just
not going to recover. And that's what
453
00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:14.400
therapy really does. It gives you
tools for your toolbox so that when you
454
00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:17.280
know you're having a panic attack,
you can take one of those tools and
455
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:20.719
you can be like, Okay,
I'm gonna use this and then this is
456
00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:23.800
going to help me kind of get
back to equilibrium, you know. And
457
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:30.039
therapists have tons of different you know, tips and tricks, and it's so
458
00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:32.840
different for everybody on what it's going
to be helpful for them. You know,
459
00:37:32.920 --> 00:37:37.400
they have the five it is the
five senses one. It's like look
460
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:43.280
for five things here, here,
four things. I forget what it is,
461
00:37:44.079 --> 00:37:46.800
something like that kind of ground deal. So there's tons of tips,
462
00:37:47.559 --> 00:37:53.400
grounding exercises, There's tons of tips
and tricks though that all use and um.
463
00:37:54.039 --> 00:37:59.199
But again, it's just that mindset
of wanting to get better. And
464
00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:02.559
I'm just realizing again, like when
I was saying earlier, do you want
465
00:38:02.599 --> 00:38:07.920
to live the next sixty seventy years
of your life miserable? Like no?
466
00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:13.119
And I think for a while I
didn't think I deserved it. I think
467
00:38:13.159 --> 00:38:16.679
I struggled with feeling feeling like I
didn't deserve it. I really struggled.
468
00:38:16.719 --> 00:38:22.039
So I grew up Christian, and
I think I struggled for a bit with
469
00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:28.800
the whole um, you know,
I shouldn't I shouldn't complain about anything because
470
00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:31.239
I don't live in a mud hut
and you know, the middle of the
471
00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:36.239
desert or something, you know,
like in a third world country. I
472
00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:40.159
don't have to walk a mile from
water. Um. And so I think
473
00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:45.639
that I just developed this mindset in
my head that because I didn't have to
474
00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:50.199
struggle on that level, you know, I wasn't living on the streets.
475
00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:52.559
I had a home. From the
outside looking in, my life looked pretty
476
00:38:52.599 --> 00:38:57.800
perfect. I had a really nice
house, and I had, you know,
477
00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:00.519
nice looking parents who you know,
for the most part, treated me
478
00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:04.800
really nicely and they took care of
me. And so I think for a
479
00:39:04.840 --> 00:39:10.239
while I didn't feel that I deserved
to complain um. And so I think
480
00:39:10.599 --> 00:39:15.440
getting to the point where I realized, you know, like everyone is on
481
00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:20.800
a different journey. And I think
I read somewhere too that they did like
482
00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:28.239
a happiness study and there were people
in third world countries that were way happier
483
00:39:28.639 --> 00:39:32.239
than people who were millionaires. And
so I finally got to the realization that
484
00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:37.159
it really isn't happiness and joy isn't
measured by staff. It's not measured by
485
00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:43.400
what your life looks like from the
outside. And everyone's going to have a
486
00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:46.559
different journey. So I mean,
we're all going to have a different problem
487
00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:50.079
to fix in our own lives,
and we're all going to have a different
488
00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:58.079
journey. And they're not They're not
like equally compared to each other. So
489
00:39:58.480 --> 00:40:02.800
just because you know my life,
I can't equally compare my struggle to a
490
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:08.400
millionaire struggle or to a person with
a third World countries struggle. You know,
491
00:40:08.519 --> 00:40:14.239
we're all equally deserving of happiness,
and that's going to look different for
492
00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:17.400
all of us. So I think
once I finally got into that realization to
493
00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:22.559
that I deserve happiness, I deserve
to have joy, and that, you
494
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:24.920
know, just like I want my
friend, you know, I want my
495
00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:29.719
friends to have such a great life, and I believe that God wants us
496
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:31.840
to have a good life. And
just like I believe that, you know,
497
00:40:32.679 --> 00:40:36.400
my friend, I'll just say,
like my friend Joe, just call
498
00:40:36.440 --> 00:40:38.119
it. I don't have a friend
Joe, but and you know, God
499
00:40:38.199 --> 00:40:44.519
wants Joe's life to be amazing and
fulfilling and have perfect and just as much
500
00:40:44.559 --> 00:40:47.559
as he cares about Joe if he
hears about me, And so I think
501
00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:52.239
that that's also what helps me too, was like, he really does care
502
00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:55.719
just as much about me. So
why am I discrediting myself so much?
503
00:40:55.760 --> 00:41:00.639
Why am I Why do I not
feel worthy? Because I I'm worthy And
504
00:41:00.679 --> 00:41:05.000
it's not because that kind of anything
I've done. It's just I'm a human
505
00:41:05.119 --> 00:41:09.199
and we're all equal, and we
all are equally deserving of happiness. So
506
00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:15.280
I think also getting to that point
of understanding, like you deserve to get
507
00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:21.559
better, you deserve to live a
fulfilled life. And you had no control
508
00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:24.519
over where you were born, what
color you were born, who we were
509
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:30.159
born to like, who your parents
are, zero control over that. The
510
00:41:30.280 --> 00:41:32.239
only thing you do have control over
is what you do with the current your
511
00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:37.559
current life. So I also don't
like I hope, So I don't like
512
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:44.119
whiners, Like whining really bothers me
unless you have a solution for it.
513
00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:45.559
Like and I want to say whiners, I just mean the people who are
514
00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:51.079
always playing the victim. They're like, my life sucks and the like,
515
00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:54.280
you know, it's just always another
problem. But then they're really never working
516
00:41:54.400 --> 00:42:01.159
towards fixing it. So my idea
is that it like, if you have
517
00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:06.800
problems in your life like you're you
should you should actively be trying to fix
518
00:42:06.880 --> 00:42:09.920
it and make it better. So, um, I'm gonna forget right,
519
00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:16.119
but like, yes, it's not
your fault what happened to you in the
520
00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:23.639
past, but it is your responsibility. Once you have the understanding that there
521
00:42:23.800 --> 00:42:30.039
is a problem, it's your responsibility
at that point to move forward and work
522
00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:32.639
towards a resolution for yourself. Yes, does that kind of makes sense?
523
00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:39.440
Go with it and then add to
it as thing as you learn more,
524
00:42:39.719 --> 00:42:45.719
because I feel like with any sort
of recovery with trauma, you're always learning,
525
00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:47.800
Oh this is something new I can
try, and does it work for
526
00:42:47.880 --> 00:42:52.320
you? Maybe? Maybe not.
You know, I've tried all kinds of
527
00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:58.119
different things with my trauma recovery,
so and I always encourage people, Hey,
528
00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:00.079
you know, it may not work
for you, but it it may.
529
00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:09.119
It might just change your life exactly. And it is one not your
530
00:43:09.159 --> 00:43:15.440
fault what happened to you during your
childhood or whatever. Whatever people's trauma is,
531
00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:17.880
it's not their fault that something happened
to them, but it is their
532
00:43:17.960 --> 00:43:22.119
responsibility in my opinion, or at
least for how I see it in my
533
00:43:22.280 --> 00:43:29.159
life, it's my responsibility to learn
from it and move forward with my life
534
00:43:29.440 --> 00:43:35.119
and a responsible way. I guess
like to kind of take ownership, Like,
535
00:43:35.320 --> 00:43:37.400
listen, this is what I struggle
with. It wasn't my fault,
536
00:43:38.039 --> 00:43:43.440
but I'm not going to stay this
way because I'm an adult. I have
537
00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:45.280
a brain. You know, I've
been blessed with a healthy body. I've
538
00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:52.599
been blessed with a healthy brain,
and it's my job now to learn from
539
00:43:52.639 --> 00:43:55.760
this experience and grow from it and
become a better person and more fulfilled in
540
00:43:55.840 --> 00:44:00.400
my life. So because if I
guess we're to stay a victim my whole
541
00:44:00.440 --> 00:44:05.639
life, then that's not my mom's
fault. Like if I wanted to just
542
00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:08.119
brout, you know, every day
I don't get out of bed because you
543
00:44:08.199 --> 00:44:12.320
know, my mom was mean to
me when I was a little like,
544
00:44:12.599 --> 00:44:15.840
that's not that's not going to help
me at all, you know. So
545
00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:19.800
I think I think that that's just
kind of my perspective, which might not
546
00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:23.440
be everyone's perspective, but I think
it's just a kind of been my motivation
547
00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:28.360
really together better though, too,
Well, thanks for coming on our show
548
00:44:28.519 --> 00:44:37.280
and thanks for answering all our questions
guys, because a lot of us are
549
00:44:37.559 --> 00:44:44.960
struggling with the borderline mother or borderline
father, whichever people are struggling with UM.
550
00:44:45.079 --> 00:44:52.159
But thanks for listening and Amber.
Maybe we'll come back when a follow
551
00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:53.679
up in a few months, maybe
a couple of years, who knows.
552
00:44:54.760 --> 00:45:02.760
Ah. You can always follow us
on Spotify or Audible or Apple or Google
553
00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:07.480
UM, and then you can always
come to our website at ww rachel on
554
00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:10.880
Recovery dot com. Thanks for listening. H
