Episode Transcript
WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.440 --> 00:00:04.480
Hi, this is Rachel Recovery.
We're here with The Lies We Left with
2
00:00:04.599 --> 00:00:09.560
Ashley and Aaron. Um, Ashley
and Aaron toasts a little bit about yourself.
3
00:00:09.560 --> 00:00:14.279
Who wants to go first? Well, my name is Aaron. I'm
4
00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:18.879
one of the older sisters. I'm
the middle child of five sisters, and
5
00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:24.079
my sister Ashley and I, along
with our other sisters, have a podcast
6
00:00:25.079 --> 00:00:30.679
named The Lies We Left Podcast,
and it's talking about our journey and recovering
7
00:00:30.719 --> 00:00:38.159
from healing and trauma. Okay,
Um, well let's just Ashley tell us
8
00:00:38.159 --> 00:00:42.799
a little bit about yourself. Yeah, I'm Ashley. I'm the last born
9
00:00:42.920 --> 00:00:46.079
out of five girls. Um,
like Aaron said, you know, we
10
00:00:46.159 --> 00:00:50.759
have our podcast, The Lies We
Left Podcast, and you know, we're
11
00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:55.039
just so excited to be here on
your podcast and hoping that we can share
12
00:00:55.039 --> 00:00:59.799
a little bit about our story and
hope that it helps someone. Well,
13
00:00:59.840 --> 00:01:03.200
the that's what we're all here for. So let's get into the questions.
14
00:01:03.400 --> 00:01:11.799
Um, what things have you done
to recovery from being abused? As you
15
00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:15.120
want to go first? Sure?
Yeah, I mean I would say the
16
00:01:15.239 --> 00:01:21.319
very first thing was I had to
accept and kind of come to terms with
17
00:01:21.400 --> 00:01:26.280
the things that happened to me um, And once I was able to come
18
00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:29.719
to that place, that was really
when I started doing what's called E M
19
00:01:29.799 --> 00:01:34.920
d R therapy, specifically E M
d R trauma therapy. I started doing
20
00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:38.599
that for a little over a year
to try to help bring out the traumas
21
00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:44.239
so that way I could deal with
it work through it. And during that
22
00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:51.560
time, I was diagnosed with disassociative
identity disorder and that kind of spiraled into
23
00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:56.640
a whirlwind of different issues that you
know, led to dealing with some PTSD
24
00:01:56.959 --> 00:02:01.120
and trying to work through memories and
all these different types of emotions. And
25
00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:06.799
so the M d R really opened
the floodgate, and you know, kind
26
00:02:06.799 --> 00:02:10.120
of since then, it's been working
on my self esteemed, kind of working
27
00:02:10.120 --> 00:02:15.960
on my spiritual health because of the
way in which we were raised, um
28
00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:21.120
to know about God and just kind
of having a support system and having my
29
00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:28.479
sisters there. Okay, for me, I would say I've done a whole
30
00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:31.560
lot of things. It's kind of
like the things that you like, name
31
00:02:31.599 --> 00:02:36.120
it, I've done it. Almost
to everything. I've done everything from I
32
00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:42.360
mean, some things haven't been helpful, like cold showers. That's not helpful
33
00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:47.039
if you were in constant fight or
flight. Taking a cold shower is not
34
00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:51.919
going to help you. So I
thought it would and it just wasn't,
35
00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:55.919
So don't ever try that. So
for me, E M d R therapy
36
00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:01.439
was definitely the catalyst that helped me. And then it kind of got to
37
00:03:01.479 --> 00:03:07.280
a point where, well, when
I couldn't afford it that much, so
38
00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:12.960
I had to go to other avenues. But then also E M d R
39
00:03:13.120 --> 00:03:22.639
was pretty exhausting. So then I
started meeting with someone who at spiritual healing
40
00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:30.680
or inner healing, so she works
with people doing inner healing and that has
41
00:03:30.759 --> 00:03:35.840
really helped me probably the most.
Um E M d R was definitely the
42
00:03:35.879 --> 00:03:40.639
thing that launched me, and then
inter healing was the thing that brought a
43
00:03:40.759 --> 00:03:45.599
lot of healing. So those are
the things that I would say I've done
44
00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:53.039
to recover what interhealing? Okay,
so what does that look like? So
45
00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:59.199
inter healing, I'm sure that there
are different aspects of inter healing. I
46
00:03:59.319 --> 00:04:04.120
know that a lot of religions have
different versions of inner healing. But I
47
00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:10.240
do come from a Christian background.
I am a Christian or I'm a believer
48
00:04:10.280 --> 00:04:15.800
in Jesus and I follow his teachings
and I believe in God. And what
49
00:04:15.920 --> 00:04:24.079
inner healing does is it brings Jesus
to the core memory. So if there's
50
00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:29.639
a memory, let's say that,
Um well, I mean, I don't
51
00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:31.839
want to get too triggering, but
there, let's I'll just give a hypothetical
52
00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:39.800
situation. Let's say I was eating
ice cream in my um, you know,
53
00:04:40.120 --> 00:04:43.240
in my house as a little kid, and my dad comes to me.
54
00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:46.199
He says, are you going to
eat all of that? You fatty?
55
00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:49.040
You know? And that really scarred
me. So then I go into
56
00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:53.639
that memory and I say, Jesus, what do you want to show me?
57
00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:56.600
How do you want? What do
you want me to see? Where
58
00:04:56.639 --> 00:05:02.360
are you in this memory? Where
were you? And so that? And
59
00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:05.920
then Jesus shows you this is where
I was. These are the things that
60
00:05:05.959 --> 00:05:11.959
I actually say about you. You
weren't fat, You were enjoying ice cream
61
00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:16.160
like a normal child should. Your
father was a was a was a man
62
00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:19.839
who who had faults, and he
was abusive, you know, things like
63
00:05:19.879 --> 00:05:24.959
that. So that is what inter
healing is to me and what I've experienced.
64
00:05:26.199 --> 00:05:30.399
Okay, UM, I know you
guys have entered a lot of types
65
00:05:30.439 --> 00:05:33.560
of abuse. Can we just kind
of named them? All since there's so
66
00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:40.000
many of them. Yes, everything
under the sun. Now. Uh.
67
00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:46.360
So we are our birth mother that
we we call her by her first name,
68
00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:49.800
we don't, um, we don't
recognize her as our mother anymore because
69
00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:57.839
of the abuse that happened. Um. She abused substances growing up, So
70
00:05:57.879 --> 00:06:01.199
we dealt with parental substance abuse.
We dealt with a lot of poverty,
71
00:06:01.399 --> 00:06:05.600
um, which that's not necessarily abuse. But everything else that happened under that
72
00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:11.879
was we had. Um, there's
a lot of neglect. Um. There
73
00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:15.680
was some physical abuse to some of
us. There was also sexual abuse from
74
00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:20.319
our birth mother to three of us. UM. And then there was also
75
00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:28.639
emotional abuse, spiritual and spiritual abuse, yes, educational and neglect. So
76
00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:33.360
just yeah, yes, those are
all big ones. Yeah. Um,
77
00:06:33.399 --> 00:06:43.319
what has been the most helpful?
M hmm. I guess I would say
78
00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:47.399
for me, what has been the
most helpful is, as Aaron always says
79
00:06:47.439 --> 00:06:51.560
on our podcast, doing the hard
work of healing, and our other sister
80
00:06:51.639 --> 00:06:55.680
Brooks, she hates it when we
say that, but it's true. I
81
00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:58.800
mean, healing is not easy,
and if anybody is telling you that it's
82
00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:01.360
easy, they're just wrong. I
mean, healing is a lot of work.
83
00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:05.199
It's it's hard, it's it's not
always going to be fun. You'll
84
00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:10.439
have your good days and you'll have
your bad days. But essentially what's really
85
00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:17.120
helped me is just sticking to it
and constantly having this like view of things
86
00:07:17.240 --> 00:07:23.439
going to be better. Because three
years ago, no not three years ago,
87
00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:27.800
just a few years ago, I
didn't envision myself to be doing this
88
00:07:27.879 --> 00:07:30.079
much better. I didn't. I
didn't think that that was possible. But
89
00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:34.480
I kept holding on to what I
felt like God was trying to show me,
90
00:07:34.759 --> 00:07:40.040
which is that he promised me,
he promises me a better future,
91
00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:43.560
and he wants to heal me,
he wants to help me. So just
92
00:07:43.639 --> 00:07:47.839
kind of holding onto that has really
helped me probably over these last few years.
93
00:07:47.959 --> 00:07:55.160
Okay, for me, I would
say feeling all of my feelings no
94
00:07:55.240 --> 00:08:01.439
longer dissociating from them and I still
do that like I still do that because
95
00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:05.839
I had to do that all my
life. I had to dissociate to protect
96
00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:09.160
myself from the environment that I was
in, and that just kind of follows
97
00:08:09.160 --> 00:08:16.519
you as an adult. You you
dissociate, and we all have different forms
98
00:08:16.519 --> 00:08:20.839
of dissociation, but mine was pretty
bad. So I would say, like
99
00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:24.920
being in the moment, feeling those
feelings, not being afraid to feel those
100
00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:31.480
feelings, even if that's intense hatred
towards God, if it's intense hatred towards
101
00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:35.519
the world. How it works?
Um? So, I would say for
102
00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:43.240
me allowing myself to feel those feelings
and acknowledging them. Yeah, my therapist
103
00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:48.000
that I didn't like to feel my
feelings. It's hard, It's really hard.
104
00:08:48.919 --> 00:08:52.759
You don't want to do it because
you want to go watch TV to
105
00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:58.720
forget, or you want to eat. You know, for me, it
106
00:08:58.799 --> 00:09:03.159
was always eating or watching TV.
Yeah. I think most of us try
107
00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:11.159
to find some way to numb it
or TikTok now or Facebook or whatever.
108
00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:22.679
Yeah. Um how did your family
respond? Well? At first? Aaron
109
00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:31.480
was actually ironically the very first person
besides my husband that I found out about
110
00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:37.559
this stuff with, um Cindy or
birth mother. Um So, to backtrack,
111
00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:43.039
though, we all didn't know this, Like, I'm I'm thirty.
112
00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:48.080
I think I'm thirty when I realized
I've been molested by our mother, our
113
00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:54.759
birth mother, Ashley. How old
were you? Oh gosh, let's see,
114
00:09:54.759 --> 00:10:00.879
I'm twenty seven. When was this
in twenty nineteen? I was probably
115
00:10:00.919 --> 00:10:09.200
like and we had realized at different
times, but Ashley didn't. Ashley started
116
00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:15.639
having flashbacks years before two thousand nineteen, but I never told anyone besides I
117
00:10:15.679 --> 00:10:22.320
think her husband. Yeah. So
back in when I applied for child protective
118
00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:26.159
services here in Texas, I had
to take this sexual abuse training. And
119
00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:30.279
I won't go into depth about what
was in the training, partially because I
120
00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:33.559
don't fully remember what was in it, but it was enough that it triggered
121
00:10:33.559 --> 00:10:39.519
me. And at the time I
didn't know what a trigger was necessarily,
122
00:10:39.559 --> 00:10:43.519
and I didn't know that I was
having a flashback, but I instantly had
123
00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:50.080
this flashback of me with Cindy,
and it freaked me out. I started
124
00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:54.879
having a panic attack. I had
to leave the training, and I just
125
00:10:54.960 --> 00:11:00.120
convinced myself for a few years that, like I was crazy and that I
126
00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:05.600
was just thinking weird things and I
just didn't make anything of it, even
127
00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:09.879
though that abuse makes so much sense
today, Like when I finally came to
128
00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:15.440
the conclusion that those things were real
and that they were true and I started
129
00:11:15.480 --> 00:11:20.799
diving into them, it made so
much sense. So but our father he
130
00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:28.399
had died, so no reaction from
him obviously. Yeah, I don't know
131
00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:33.039
if Rachel, I don't know if
you know this, but like I just
132
00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:37.759
I tried to find humor in everything. I feel like there's have to there's
133
00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:43.399
a special code with people who are
victims of abuse. And you're like,
134
00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:48.039
well, let's just laugh about that, Like you just have to, that's
135
00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:50.600
what you have to do. But
yeah, I would say that Aaron.
136
00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:56.480
I mean, Aaron was mortified when
I told her because I told her she
137
00:11:56.559 --> 00:12:01.000
told me something personal about herself,
and that's what made me so way into,
138
00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:03.360
oh, well, you know,
I've I've had this, you know,
139
00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:07.919
this this thing pop in my head
and I don't actually think that it's
140
00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:09.840
real or anything, but I don't
really know what to do with it.
141
00:12:09.879 --> 00:12:15.639
And Aaron, like her jaw just
dropped. And then I told Aaron not
142
00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:20.240
to tell anyone. Didn't listen to
me. She told Brooke. She told
143
00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:26.720
Brooke, and and then that kind
of led to the whole family finding out.
144
00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:33.679
And then it divided us at first, um because we were really conflicted.
145
00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:37.919
Me and Rachel are other sister specifically, were really conflicted because I didn't
146
00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:41.279
want to believe that this happened.
I told Aaron and I told Brooke,
147
00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:48.240
I'm not sure that this is super
real. So it was just it divided
148
00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:54.159
us at first, but then ultimately
it brought us together. Yeah. No,
149
00:12:54.559 --> 00:12:58.480
I can see that happening, and
it probably took a little while for
150
00:12:58.559 --> 00:13:03.679
all of that to unfold. I
would imagine, Oh absolutely. It was
151
00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:07.679
hard though, because when you first
come out with something, especially it being
152
00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:13.360
older, when you're older, because
you you live all of your life not
153
00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:18.279
knowing that or having that realization,
and then you come to it and you're
154
00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:24.480
just like, are people going to
believe me? Like, because I never
155
00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:28.480
understood I. I always thought how
the brain worked that if you something traumatic
156
00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:33.960
happens to you like that, why
would you forget that? You know?
157
00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:37.000
And so that that's how I That's
how I thought, And so I thought,
158
00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:41.639
maybe something's wrong with me, maybe
I'm making this up. And then
159
00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:46.200
why would someone make that up?
I think it was Jennifer Lloyd. I
160
00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:52.000
think she wrote a book about that. I'll send you the link about UM
161
00:13:52.879 --> 00:14:00.600
like suppressing childhood memories. Yes,
yeah, um, I haven't read it
162
00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:07.000
yet, but she does a bunch
of that's her primary research is UM working
163
00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:13.679
on suppressing childhood memories such as this. And you know, sometimes I think
164
00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:18.360
I may have some that I I
mean, I remember some of my abuse,
165
00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:22.600
but I don't. I think there
might be some that I don't remember.
166
00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:26.879
So like you, I like,
I'm I don't think I can say
167
00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:31.320
I was physically abused, Like I
don't have any memory. But there has
168
00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:37.639
been some things where I think I
was physically abused, But my body,
169
00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:41.320
like I, I cannot go past
that memory because I I just it just
170
00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:46.600
stops, just blacked out, and
I do not know what happened after that.
171
00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:48.759
I'm assuming, though, if someone
is going to sexually abuse me,
172
00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:54.639
they're also going to physically abuse me. Not necessarily, but that's also possible.
173
00:14:56.279 --> 00:15:00.000
Yeah, I mean I saw how
she was physical towards my youngest,
174
00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:01.919
my younger two sisters, So I
don't know why she wouldn't be that way
175
00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:09.240
with me, I guess, but
yeah, no, I mean, you
176
00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:13.000
know, and that just depends on
the family. I mean, my dad
177
00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:20.360
wasn't really a physically abusive It was
more of a mind control type mm hm,
178
00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:28.799
you know, emotional trauma bonding.
Yeah. For for our mother,
179
00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:33.399
she just hated us, like she
just hated us, That's what it came
180
00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:39.639
down to. And she was very
narcissistic, extremely narcissistic. Yeah, my
181
00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:45.759
mom was borderline, which is mhm. It's kind of like jackal and Hide.
182
00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:50.799
One minute you're her favorite person,
next minute you're a horrible, awful,
183
00:15:50.919 --> 00:15:54.600
terrible child. Yeah, and that's
as hard as a kid. You
184
00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:58.200
don't know what to do with that. Yeah. I don't think either one
185
00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:03.799
is good. So I think they're
just different. Yeah. I think the
186
00:16:03.799 --> 00:16:10.799
biggest thing is I don't think narcissist
or borderlines can emotionally regulate, and they
187
00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:18.360
passed that on and it's really hard
to emotionally regulate. Yeah. I mean
188
00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:26.399
that's been my struggle mhm. So
yeah, and I think a lot of
189
00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:33.480
us can relate to that. It's
just being able to ground ourselves. Mm
190
00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:41.679
hmm. Yeah. Um, how
did your community respond? M hm.
191
00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:48.159
So it was kind of a scandal
with us talking about this, honestly,
192
00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:52.320
because we grew up in a church
that some would say is not a cult,
193
00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:56.360
but the majority of it who did
leave the church would definitely say it's
194
00:16:56.360 --> 00:17:02.200
a cult. It was a cult
um or maybe some don't care to say
195
00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:08.240
anything about it, but it was
a cult, and you know, it
196
00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:12.079
was a you know, we were
Southern Baptist at one point in time,
197
00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:18.640
maybe someone said we were non denominational. I don't know, but we were
198
00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:26.599
not nondenominational. We were Southern Baptist. Y'll so, and and I'm not
199
00:17:26.680 --> 00:17:32.039
saying Southern Baptist or you know,
nondenominational or any denomination is a cult.
200
00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:34.799
You can be a cult and you
know, be anything you want, you
201
00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:38.319
know, but that's true. I
mean, you could be a cult cup
202
00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:44.400
the Easter buny yep, something like
that. I mean so, I would
203
00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:52.960
say the majority of the responses that
we got were incredibly empathetic and just they
204
00:17:53.039 --> 00:18:00.319
shared that they were just sorrowful.
They were just they were mourning what happened.
205
00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:03.200
It was and it was a lot
of the adults. It was mainly
206
00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:07.920
some the adults in that church that
would reach out to us and just say
207
00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:11.319
we had no idea, we had
no So on the flip side of that,
208
00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:17.440
though, they didn't know what happened
to us, but what was heartbreaking,
209
00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:19.640
and it just it felt like your
heart was being ripped, ripped out
210
00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:25.319
and stepped on and thrown and it
was run over and I could keep going,
211
00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:29.240
but the bottom line is that it
felt so awful for people to tell
212
00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:33.279
us they're like you know, we
knew something was wrong, Like we knew
213
00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:38.000
that your family life basically sucked,
you know, like people told us that
214
00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:41.000
and they're like, you know,
we knew that, we were concerned about
215
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:45.759
this or that, and it's just
like they didn't do anything. They you
216
00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:49.480
know, and they handled it within
the church, didn't handle it, you
217
00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:55.480
know, where the church doesn't need
to be dealing with things like that.
218
00:18:55.519 --> 00:18:57.640
The government needs to. You need
to call the police, call CPS,
219
00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:03.359
call whoever you need to, you
know, don't call your pastor you know,
220
00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:07.359
whenever it comes to signs of neglect, abuse and things like that.
221
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:11.400
Uh, that's fine thing. I'm
really glad I've been doing more. There's
222
00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:18.920
a great organization called Grace and I
Think and Snap. They're two excellent organizations,
223
00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:25.599
and they're holding the church accountable not
just for the abuse that's inside the
224
00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:33.319
church, but abuse that's happening in
the families and their homes m hm.
225
00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:38.119
And you know, doing more mandated
reporting and things of that nature. And
226
00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:45.519
they're teaching and training churches on how
to catch this behavior and how because I
227
00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:51.480
respond, unfortunately, that's where a
lot of it happens. A lot of
228
00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:57.039
especially incest. Incest is such a
common thing, and it's just like we
229
00:19:57.079 --> 00:20:03.400
have got to do better about winning
it out, saying something and doing something
230
00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:08.440
as best as we can. Yeah, I don't know if you guys have.
231
00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:11.400
Well, there's a book out there. It's called The Father, the
232
00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:15.599
Daughter, Incests and the Outbreak of
Childhood gan Area And I realized that your
233
00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:19.480
mom that sexually abused you, and
it can be any family member. But
234
00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:25.319
you know, it's the nine and
twentieth century and it breaks like there's news
235
00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:33.359
articles and legal documents and medical documents
dating back for two like for two hundred
236
00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:42.519
years of data basically mhm and just
on that form of incest, and there's
237
00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:48.680
tons of forms of incests. I
think the saddest thing that many churches do
238
00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:53.119
is they just try to handle it. And maybe there's a I'm sure that
239
00:20:53.160 --> 00:21:00.359
there's are good intentions with this,
but they need to when things like that,
240
00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:06.160
like domestic violence, things like that
are happening and people go to the
241
00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:11.559
pastor or the associate pastor whoever they
need to go strictly to to the police,
242
00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:18.839
to CPS. I mean they are
mandated reporters um and rather than handling
243
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:23.359
it within the church, because the
church is not designed unfortunately to help that
244
00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:30.400
they don't have the I mean,
pastors are not therapists, you know,
245
00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:36.079
unless they have a degree in therapy
and there you know, it's just there
246
00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:41.759
needs to be a separation in that. One thing that I've come to notice
247
00:21:41.799 --> 00:21:48.559
about this whole healing and everything is
that it has very much taken therapy and
248
00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:52.920
it's also taken God. It's taken
both, and there's very much a place
249
00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:56.799
for both, you know, in
your life. And so I definitely think
250
00:21:56.839 --> 00:22:02.400
both is important to have. Yeah, No, I mean, I completely
251
00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:07.319
agree. Um, I do know. I mean, churches, some of
252
00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:14.119
them are waking up and realizing they
have to do better, but that's a
253
00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:18.559
small percentage. We're a long ways
from it being the majority, which is
254
00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:26.799
heartbreaking because you know, Jesus,
you know, he was there to take
255
00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:30.240
care of us and love us and
protect the weak and the vulnerable, and
256
00:22:30.279 --> 00:22:37.119
that includes children and women in people
that are easily suppressed by society. Mm
257
00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:48.359
hmm. I mean, and the
church is probably one of the worst at
258
00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:56.359
victim blaming and protecting the Yep,
it's the rapist and the abusers. Yeah,
259
00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:00.160
it's usually the woman's fault if she's
getting abused by her husband. Well,
260
00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:03.599
maybe she hasn't you know, prayed
enough for her husband, Maybe she
261
00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:07.200
hasn't put out enough in front of
her husband. And a pastor would never
262
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:11.440
say that. But in other words, he's saying that it's the woman's fault
263
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:18.880
for not doing what she needs to
do, you know, or for how
264
00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:22.680
her husband is. But that's a
tangent in itself. Yeah, no,
265
00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:26.240
I mean, and we we talked
about that. I think I did an
266
00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:32.039
episode with Sarah Moon and she's a
female pastor in the Methodist church, which
267
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:34.440
was kind of an interesting I've heard
that episode. Yeah, it was a
268
00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:40.599
good one, and I think she
she mentioned a book I think it was,
269
00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:45.079
I can't remember it's read. Um, but she talks about a book
270
00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:53.279
that teaches pastor like it teaches people
how to recognize abuse and domestic abuse,
271
00:23:53.480 --> 00:24:07.960
like women and women, like marriage
type situations, partnerships. Yeah. Um,
272
00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:15.359
was there any re victimization or victim
blaming? No, not for me.
273
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:19.720
I think it would just be more
of like don't air out your dirty
274
00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:29.160
laundry kind of stuff, don't talk
about it, or have you forgiven her
275
00:24:29.720 --> 00:24:34.359
things like that. Yeah, I
would say the same for me. Not
276
00:24:34.359 --> 00:24:40.839
not from anyone that I communicate with
now, um like my spiritual mentor like
277
00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:45.880
she she has not said anything to
me like that. Um, but you
278
00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:51.680
know you definitely hear that message,
like that's the message that we grew up
279
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:52.880
with, and I'm sure a lot
of other people grow up with it.
280
00:24:53.680 --> 00:25:00.480
You just have to forgive. I've
heard some people ask why I don't have
281
00:25:00.519 --> 00:25:07.440
a relationship with ore with you know, Cyndey, our birth mother, and
282
00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:10.799
I'm just like, um no,
why why why would I? I have
283
00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:15.559
children on my own, I'm going
to protect my children. Um. She
284
00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:18.000
is an evil person who did that
to me, and yep, I'm not
285
00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:22.559
gonna do it. She wouldn't even
admit that she did it, and she
286
00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.200
told us when we confronted her about
it, she said that she Her ending
287
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:30.559
sentence was, I hope you you
all continue therapy because you need it.
288
00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:36.559
Not that's what she said. So
why would I have a relationship with her?
289
00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:41.200
And I just have to say that
even prior to us confronting her,
290
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:45.480
like all of us had a horrible
relationship with her. She was always she
291
00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:49.400
was always trying to like mooch off
of us, and it was always like
292
00:25:51.119 --> 00:25:55.519
a give and give. It wasn't
a give and give relationship. But it
293
00:25:55.599 --> 00:26:00.160
was never like she she always wanted
something. You know, if she did
294
00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:04.839
something for you, it was because
she wanted something or expected something, and
295
00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:10.039
so none of us, especially me
I did not. I I had conflict
296
00:26:10.039 --> 00:26:14.720
with her all the time. I
mean, she demanded to use my car.
297
00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:19.920
Just very entitled and that always bothered
me because as a teenager, I
298
00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:26.039
moved in with Rachel and I had
to start, yeah, with our third
299
00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:32.759
oldest sister, and I had to
start really pain my way, and um,
300
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:34.519
you know, she didn't want to
help out with any of my life,
301
00:26:34.599 --> 00:26:38.079
and neither did my dad at the
point, and so it made me
302
00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:42.440
very mad that she was very entitled. So I dealt with that anger.
303
00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:49.480
But oh, that's still a lot
of your childhood too. Mm hmmm.
304
00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:56.440
I mean all of this stole all
of your childhood, but are a lot
305
00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:06.599
of your childhood, right? Um, how has this impacted your career?
306
00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:11.880
I guess I'd say for me,
I mean I started at CPS, and
307
00:27:12.920 --> 00:27:19.680
that's kind of what started my healing
journey, was getting triggered during during that
308
00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:25.119
sexual abuse Yeah, during that sexual
abuse training. I mean that's what really
309
00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:30.119
motivated me to work for CPS.
I I really wanted to help abuse children
310
00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:34.119
and you know, to help make
a difference. And um, yeah,
311
00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:38.000
so I would say that for me, it was probably just getting into CPS
312
00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:47.039
and kind of going from there.
Um for me, I mean, I
313
00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:51.440
I had our firstborn son when I
was twenty one, didn't go to college,
314
00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:59.920
had two other kids after that,
and I had started I hadn't started
315
00:28:00.200 --> 00:28:06.920
my CPS job. I let's see, I had the realization that I was
316
00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:14.599
molested by our mother a few weeks
before I started CPS, and so it
317
00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:18.519
was very stressful, which is very
stressful going to therapy. Um, seeing
318
00:28:21.319 --> 00:28:27.559
just constantly seeing things that was hard, and hearing about stories that was also
319
00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:33.359
hard. Being intertwined in these stories
of these families that I worked for in
320
00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:37.480
CPS that was hard, and then
also dealing with my own stuff that that
321
00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:41.240
was that was hard. I'm sure
it affected me in more ways than I
322
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:45.440
remember. Well, it sounds like
both of you guys probably have secondary trauma
323
00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:52.599
from working from CPS. I mean, and that just who doesn't I swear
324
00:28:52.720 --> 00:29:00.759
sometimes working in this field, I
mean it's just a lot. Yeah.
325
00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:03.279
And I don't work in LINK.
I mean, this is what I do.
326
00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:08.400
This the extent of and I write
my book and other than that,
327
00:29:08.839 --> 00:29:15.359
I do other things that aren't related
to this because I can't. I couldn't
328
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:23.359
do it, honestly, couldn't work
forty hours a week working on childhood sexual
329
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:30.920
abuse or abuse in general. I
just couldn't do it. So kudos to
330
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:40.119
you. Well I quit, So
there's that. There's that. Hey,
331
00:29:40.599 --> 00:29:47.599
you know that job is tough.
Yeah it was. I made it almost
332
00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:56.079
three years though, so there's yeah. UM all right, that's it for
333
00:29:56.200 --> 00:29:59.759
lies you left left. They'll be
back next week for the rest of their
334
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:06.119
UM episode or there um their show
for part two. Thank you for listening.
335
00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:10.039
Always follow us on your favorite podcast
platform, and always follow us on
336
00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:12.000
your favorite social media and if you
have any questions, reach out to Rachel
337
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:18.839
and Recovery and UM. Just make
sure you are subscribed to your favorite podcast
338
00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:26.240
platform. We are switching UM host
this next month UM, so hopefully UH
339
00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:30.720
Sounder will be going down, So
if you are listening to us on the
340
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:34.440
Sounder website, that will be going
UM down at the end of this month,
341
00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:38.799
and I may be switching over in
the next week or two to find
342
00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:44.880
a new host UM and I'll keep
you guys posted thanks for listening. As
343
00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:49.759
always um we'll be on next week
at ten a m.
