Episode Transcript
WEBVTT
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Hi, this is Rachel and recovery. We've got a special guest today,
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boss. He's gonna tell us a
little bit about himself and boss, tell
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us a little bit about yourself.
Hey, Rachel's good to be here.
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Um, my name is Bob is. Actually my full name is Bazil Chividjian,
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but that tends to frighten people off
a bit, so I just go
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by Bos B O Z um,
Rachel. I'm a lawyer. I've been
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a lawyer since nineteen ninety, three
long time. Um. I currently m
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the operated managed Bo's law, which
is a law firm in located in Florida,
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but I represent abuse survivors throughout the
United States, uh, in civil
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matters involving abuse. So, and
we'll talk a little bit later maybe about
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the difference between a criminal case and
a civil case. I represent survivors,
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abuse survivors and civil cases all throughout
the country. and Um, prior to
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that I was a law school professor
and uh, and then back in two
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thousand before I started, when I
was in private practice, after being a
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prosecutor for a number of years,
I started an organization called grace, which
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I think you all have had.
Um, pizzinger on as a guest.
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Who is the Executive Director of grace? Uh, started that and stepped down
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from my role as the executive director
a couple of years ago. Um,
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how did you start, Bos Lah? Well, Um, you know,
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I I was teaching Um at a
law school and I realized that I did
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not want to continue doing that.
But I really had a decision to make.
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I had a decision to make to
either become the full time executive director
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of grace or do something different.
And you know, the more I thought
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about a Rachel I just didn't think
that I was the one equipped, best
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equipped to to take grace from where
it is to forward. I'm so glad
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we found singer because he's he's a
really much better role for that job today
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than than I would have been.
But in the meantime I started having a
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lot of people call me who were
abuse survivors looking for lawyers. Um.
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They had realized that they could potentially
sue a church or a youth service organization
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or at school based upon the the
abuse that they suffered as a child.
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And over time I thought, why, why do I keep referring these cases
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to other lawyers? I can do
this. In fact, I had done
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a little bit of that before I
became a law professor. So, Long
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Story Short, I made the decision
back in about two thousand late, two
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thousand eighteen, Um, two thousand
nineteen, to leave the full time profession
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of being a law professor and to
come back to Florida and to really focus
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the rest of my legal career on
advocating for survivors across the country. And
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so that's why I started Bo's law
and it's one of the most rewarding,
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humbling and most privileged jobs that I've, I think I've ever done to be
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able to advocate for such an amazing
group of people. Okay, Um,
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what are some of the most challenging
problems in your cases? Well, I
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mean every case has has problems.
I think that the question is not what
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what are the problems, but how
do you get around them and how do
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you how do you face those problems? A lot of a lot of people
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come to me having already been to
a lawyer and, you know, they
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feel like the lawyer is always telling
them you've got this problem, you've got
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this problem, you've got this problem, and to the point where they feel
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like, okay, you know,
I don't do I even have a case.
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And you know, my one of
my responsibilities as a lawyer is to
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is to speak truth to my clients
and inform them of the law, but
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also to say, Hey, here
are some problems, but here's some ways
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that I think we can overcome those
problems. And if there's any group of
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people that can overcome a problem,
who's who are capable of overcoming problems,
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it's it's it's abuse survivors, and
so we we do that. We face
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those problems. Sometimes the biggest,
probably the biggest challenge for me in in
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speaking to perspective clients, uh is
the statute of limitations. When a client
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tells me, excuse me, a
perspective client shares with me the horrors that
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they suffered and I'm left with having
to tell them that they have no legal
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remedy, not because what happened to
them didn't happen, but because the law
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arbitrarily says that after a certain period
of time you can't bring a case to
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court, and every state is different, and that's a really difficult conversation for
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me to have with somebody because by
the time they finally get to a point
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of understanding that they were abused,
processing that trauma and wanting to hold somebody
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or somebody's accountable for it. Um, and they take that brave step forward,
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they're told, I'm sorry, but
the doors of the courthouse are closed.
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Um, and I that's why we
need to have changes in the law
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so that doesn't happen with these with
these individuals. What changes in the law
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do we need to take place to
help victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse? Well,
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the big one is the statue limitations, stature limitations, for people who
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don't know, is really the every
state has a law that says, listen,
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you have an ex period of time, a limited period of time,
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from the time that you got hurt
to bring a case to court. Some
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states it's two years, some states
it's ten years. Um. Some states
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they have no stature limitations. It's
all over the board. So you know
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if, just by happenstance, if
you if you're a child and you get
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sexually abused in the state of Vermont, you have to the for the rest
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of your life the ability to file
a lawsuit. But if you happen to
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be abused in the state of Tennessee, you might have UN till I don't
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know, exactly the twenty five or
twenty six Um. So it's just it's
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really the luck of the draw.
Where you're abused may give you the opportunity
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to seek legal Um compensation UH and
other places will not. So to me
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the law needs to change. I
would love to see a uniform law that's
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that's consistent throughout the country Um with
and not just with child sexual abuse cases
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but with adult sexual abuse cases.
We see that in New York. More
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recently, New York past the Adult
Victims Act, which really opened up the
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doors and extended the statue limitations for
adult survivors of sexual abuse. A lot
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of these a lot of these statue
limitations laws were put in place for four
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people really had done a lot of
research about trauma and you know, our
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laws need to be informed. And
if people understand that, somebody who's suffered
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trauma is the first thing they're thinking
of. Is Not running to a lawyer,
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they're just trying to survive. The
next day they may not be ready
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to talk to a lawyer for another
five or ten years. Why should that
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person be penalized and have that right
taken away simply because some legislator and the
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capital says we think that's a good
amount of time. So I think the
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changes in the law as it relates
to statue limitations are some of the most
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important that need to take place.
Some states are doing it and some states
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are not. Um, okay,
how long do these cases usually take?
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Well, that's a that's a tough
question, because every case is different.
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So, you know, a case
might be Um, I might get a
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client and within three months the case
gets settled, maybe because I send a
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demand letter to the other side and
they instead of going through a lawsuit,
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they wanted to settle the case so
it could be settled in a few months.
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Others say, you know, we
we have no interest in settling this
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with you, and then we follow
all suit, and a lawsuit can take,
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you know, upward of two three
years. Um, I think things
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have really slowed down since covid and
so the whole you know, the court
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dockets are really backed up because for
almost a year we didn't even have court.
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So now all those cases that were
backed up then have to start making
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their way through the system and then, you know, if you're filing something
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today, you're you're in the back
of the line. Um, so it
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takes it takes a while. I
would say probably of civil cases end up
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settling at some point in time,
but sometimes they settle a day or two
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before the trial, after the case
has been litigated for for a couple of
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years, and sometimes, like I
said earlier, they settled sooner. But
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so I let my clients know this
is this is a marathon and they're gonna
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be weeks, maybe sometimes months,
where you feel like nothing's going on and
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sometimes you're in but we're we're on
top of it and we will get we
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will get to the other side,
but it's it is not a fast process
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and it requires a lot of patients. But I think a lot of survivors
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have waited years, sometimes decades,
to bring their case and so a lot
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of them say, well, what's
another two or three years, as long
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as I know something is being done
about it. Um, before a victims
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starts a lawsuit against a Predator,
what are things they should know before proceedings?
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And, uh, what's the difference
between going after a Predator and civil
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versus criminal? Yeah, I mean
so I guess the first part of your
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question. You know, before a
victim starts a lawsuit, where to some
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things they know before proceeding well.
I think it's really important for lawyers to
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help explain the system, the process
to the client. Most of our clients
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are not Um. They've never been
the court before and sometimes lawyers do a
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bad job in assuming that everybody has
been to do the process before, but
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most of them haven't. So explaining
the process, being there to answer questions,
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trying to empathize with clients, understanding
that this is a very tremendous moment
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in their lives. They're most of
them are scared to death. They're pretty
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intimidated by the process and sometimes they
don't even feel like asking questions, not
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because they don't have questions, but
because they don't want to bother the lawyer.
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And I said, you're not bothering
me, I want this is your
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case. That's what's really important for
me to communicate to my clients, is
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that this is not my case,
this is your case, which means that
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we're going to move forward with this
case and you're in charge. I'M gonna
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be your advocate, I'm going to
be your lawyer, but you have to
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be the one empowered to move this
thing forward, and I think that's really
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helpful and it's really I think it
helps with some healing of at least some
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of my clients to know that they
are in charge. Um, I think
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that the difference between criminal and civil
is is significant. In a criminal case
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the parties are the government and the
defendant, the specific perpetrator. Um,
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a victim is not a witness,
is not a party to the in the
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criminal case the victim is a witness. So the victim really has no control
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over that process. And so if
the prosecutor wants to file charges, if
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the prosecutor wants to plead Birogon out
the case, they'll listen to the victim.
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But the victim is in many ways
powerless in that system and ultimately the
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consequence is a criminal conviction of the
perpetrator and perhaps their liberty is taken away
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go into prison. A civil case
is a private action where you, the
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victim, is a party of the
case and the ultimate consequence of a civil
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case is not prison. The ultimate
consequence of a civil case is compensation.
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And therefore, and and and the
possible defendants in a civil case are broader
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than just the perpetrator. So if
you are working at a school, if
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you're excused, if you're a student
at a school and there's a teacher there
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that had been fired from their previous
job as a teacher because they were Um,
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wrongfully touching a student. And Uh, this new school hired them without
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doing any type of background check and, Lo and behold, that the teacher
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ends up abusing another child. Um. Well, yeah, should the teacher
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be punished? Absolutely. Should the
school be punished? Absolutely. The school
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knew, or should have known,
that this person was a danger and they
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still put this teacher in the classroom
with this child. And therefore, you
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that would be a good example of
filing a civil suit against the school so
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that this the child, for the
rest of their lives may need to get
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counseling, may need to get help, professional help, and whatever capacity.
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That child should not have to pay
for that them steps, but the compensation
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they receive in a lawsuit would go
to pay those things in future years.
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So one is more of government against
the perpetrator, ultimate consequence prison, potentially.
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The other is it's a private action. It's the offender, the victim
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or survivor against the offender or the
end or the institution that's responsible, and
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the ultimate consequences compensation. Um,
can you give us the pros and cons
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of going for us a little suit
against the Predator. Well, remember earlier
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I said that the the ultimate consequence
of a civil suit is compensation. So
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the challenge comes when you have a
an offender who has no money. So
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you can take a case through the
process and get a judge and and still
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walk away with nothing and so and
and that's it's even more challenging to find
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a lawyer to do that because lawyers
handle these cases on what it's called a
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contingency fee basis, which means if
a victim comes to me and says I
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want to hire you as a lawyer, I'm not going to charge them my
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hourly rate. I'M gonna say,
okay, I think what's gonna be easiest
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for you is you don't owe me
anything until or unless we settle the case,
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and then once we do, then
the legal fees are a percentage of
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that total settle Um. But if
you're going against somebody you know, an
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offender who has no money to begin
with, it's gonna be tough to find
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a lawyer to take that case because
you're basically asking the lawyer to take that
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case for free because they're never gonna
see any money. Um. On the
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flip side of that, I've had
a number of cases where the perpetrator does
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have money and they would rather settle
the case then have the case filed and
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this go through court, public courts, and everybody learn about it, and
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so they often, not always,
but they oftentimes will, will try to
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settle. So ultimately I try to
be very practical and pragmatic with my clients
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and say, listen, if you're
going to go through this process, the
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civil process, the ultimate, ultimate
outcome is compensation. But we can't go
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forward against a perpetrator where we know
from day one there will be no compensation.
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The last thing I'll say is sometimes
what we do is we sue both
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the let's say you were abused by
a youth pastor. We might sue the
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perpetrator for the abuse, but we
also sue the church. So we sue
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both and and usually, not always, but usually the church will have insurance
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or have some type of assets that
they can pay out. So you may
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not get you may not get the
perpetrator paying you, but the but the
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the institution that hired him or her, would be paying. Okay, Um,
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if the case goes to trial,
how do you educate the jury on
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trauma? Huh, okay, that's
a good question. Um, I try
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to start educating the jury from the
moment I stand up to select a jury.
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You Begin asking them questions, asking
them questions that are really designed to
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inform them and not really elicited,
designed to elicit answers. Um. So
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I'll give you an example. It's
not really dealing with trauma, but I
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might say, Um, I might
ask let's say you're a perspective jury.
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I say it, might say Rachel, do you believe that the testimony of
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one witness whom you believe is enough
to find the defendant here? Response of
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all, and you might go no, it's gotta be more. And I
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might go, well, how many
witnesses do you want? And that's a
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way of me educating the jury that
in fact, the testimony of one witness
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whom you believe is sufficient um to
either convict or find an institution civilly liable.
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But that's the way I'm educating the
jury. Every question I ask is
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educating the jury. So, for
example, you know, some people respond
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to trauma differently than other people.
So I remember when I was a prosecutor,
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one of my victims. A child
was being interviewed in a videotaped interview
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and they were being asked questions and
they were started laughing in their response.
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Well, they're not laughing because I
think it's funny, they're laughing because,
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uh, they're their anxiety levels are
through the roof and it's because of the
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trauma. So you help and you
know you're going to show that video to
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the jury. You begin helping them
understand that from the beginning of you know,
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do you you understand that everybody responds
to trauma differently and the way you
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respond to trauma maybe some way,
may be much different than the way the
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person sitting next to you response to
Truma? Does that make sense? So
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you start educating that jury from the
very beginning of jury selection. And then,
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of course, the other way to
to us, then the other the
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other way to uh, to do
that is through Um, expert witness.
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And hold on it. Is there
there an expert witness? So you might
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bring in an expert therapist who will
come in and and testify to the jury,
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who may have assessed your client,
given him a full psychological assessment and
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provided the jury the information they need
to understand what trauma is and how trauma
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affects somebody's Day to day life.
Okay, Um, are things changing in
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the legal system when it comes to
abuse, whether it's rate, domestic violence
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or childhood sexual abuse, and you
can break the down. We just start
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with rank. How is that changing? Yeah, I mean, I guess
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I would just say as a category, these types of UH sexual violence and
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adult violence. Um, I think
people more people are more aware of this
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topic. I think that the one
of the benefits of the meat too movement
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was it brought uh, it brought
this issue to the surface and I think
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a lot of people learned through the
me too movement that, Um, that
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family members and friends that they had
never known before were our survivors of abuse.
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And so I think there's general awareness, better awareness, in our society
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today. I think the legal system
is like the legal system usually is,
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and that is, Um, it's
always slow to follow up, and so,
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Um, I think we are catching
up in the legal system. For
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example, these these laws that I
was telling talking to you about earlier,
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the statue limitations changes. I think
those are shifting, especially for childhood sexual
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abuse. Um, you know,
they're we're providing we're providing survivors a longer
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period of time which to come to
court. Um I think that the whole
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non disclosure agreements, which we hear
a lot about, which used to be
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pretty standard with these types of cases
and settlements, where you would sign an
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agreement, you would get money,
but in exchange for that money, within
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that agreement, you would agree never
to ever talk about the situation again.
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Well, that's largely that's gone by
the a side because people don't want to,
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they don't ever want to feel like
they have been Um silenced, and
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so I make it very clear with
my clients that if you I'll let the
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other side know that we are not
going to settle this case if they're going
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to require a nondisclosure agreement, which
is that's a that's a that's a non
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negotiable. We're not going to do
that. And you know, for the
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most part I'm able to settle cases
without nondisclosure agreements. So that's a change.
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I think we the horror of nondisclosure
agreements came out when we saw Harvey
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Weinstein and how many of his victims
had to sign these nondisclosure agreements and lived
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in fear of ever seeing anything to
anybody about what this disgusting human being did
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to them. We also started with
the rabbi Zachariah's situation where, you know,
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he had um his victim had signed
a non disclosure and and again,
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very frustrating not to be able to
to share about, you know, the
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most Um, profound owned parts of
their life because of the agreement, it
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really ends up looking like a payoff, you know, it's money for silence.
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So that's that's largely gone by the
wayside. I think we have a
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lot more to do on on domestic
violence and adult sexual violence. Um.
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You know, I was just hearing
the other day the young woman was abducted
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when she was running at four in
the morning and outside of Memphis and ultimately
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murdered, and some of the comments
that were being made is, what's she
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doing and running at four in the
morning, and I thought, wow,
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it's amazing how we can take this
situation and turn it around and, whether
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you intended it or not, you
you know, you're victim blaming Um and
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we've got a long way to go
with that. Um, I think what
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we have you know, I think
with adult sexual violence, I'm I feel
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like we've taken a few steps backwards. I think the and I don't not
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necessarily political, but I think the
whole trump era brought us there and Um,
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and you know that there's a large
group of people in that in that
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demographic that thought we should be,
you know, feeling sorry for the for
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the men, and that the men
were the real victims here. And it's
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just, it's just, it's just
not based on fact. And and so
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I think we've got to I think
we've got a ways to go on on
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both the adult sexual violence and domestic
violence inside and outside of the Church,
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Um, because it's it's no better
inside the church, in fact, sometimes
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a lot worse. Very much agree
with you there. Um. Many of
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our laws in the United States come
from Bible. How could we use scripture
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today to implement better laws, to
protect, for protection for victims and more
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adequate punishment and rehabilitation for perpetrators?
Well, I don't think we should be
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using scriptures today to implement laws.
Um, we're not a theocracy or a
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republic. Um. Now, that
doesn't mean that we can't be informed by
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by scripture when we talk about Um. You know, all of us are
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made in the image of God.
And so how do how does that?
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How should that if I'm a Christian, UH, politician, Christian legislator,
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how should that inform me as as
to the prioritizing of laws, Um,
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and protecting vulnerable people and making sure
that victims in these types of cases,
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um, aren't humiliated but treated with
respect? Those things should inform us,
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Um and, and you know so. So I don't. I think our
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faith should inform us in in the
laws that we put forth or the bills
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that we put forth. But I'm
certainly not a propo on and of using
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scripture too to implement laws. I
think. Um, I think that gets
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us in trouble and and, quite
frankly, scripture was never my understanding of
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scripture was never designed to, you
know, create laws in a society thousands
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of a year later. I mean
it's just a misapplication of of all that.
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But we can search, sure glean
some principles from scripture, Um,
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and, and I think we have
to do that. Um. And you
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know I don't. I'm not.
I'm not a big I think I think
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offenders, especially sexual offenders, they
need to be punished. Um. I'm
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not in my career encountered many,
if at any. I don't know who
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have ever been, quote unquote,
rehabilitated Um and so I think the the
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best thing an offender can do is
to understand the gravity and darkness of their
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own heart. Even if an offender
who who reports to have become a Christian,
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if they have reported to see a
lot, a lot of times in
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the church, the offender says I've
become a Christian. So everybody says,
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Oh, the person is a new
creature in Christ and welcome him and he
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doesn't have that supervision anymore and he's
not that person anymore. And I'm going,
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well, wait a minute. Actually
the person, if they really have
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genuinely become a Christian, they'll know
they have to acknowledge the darkness of their
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own heart and how we are.
This is replete throughout scripture, how we
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are capable of engaging in any time, just about any type of conduct.
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And the fact is, Mr Perpetrator, you have engaged in that kinduct that
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it's not that you might, you
have. So you should be the first
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and foremost person saying I need guardrails, I need boundaries, I need and
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I will subject myself to whatever you
direct me to, because I do understand
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the darkness of my own heart,
because of my faith, um, but
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we don't. We sort of look
at them in the reverse, and so
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the offenders. We oftentimes end up
giving much more grace to offenders and law
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to victims, and that's got to
change. Yes, Um, what advice
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would you give victims out there?
That's a very broad question. Um,
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I think that, as a lawyer, what I would say is, in
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fact, my wife and I have
been talking about this recently, and that
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is I think a lot of victims
abew survivors don't realize what their legal options
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might be. Now, that doesn't
mean that they are going to utilize them,
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but they don't know what those options
are and by the time they decide
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they're gonna look into that, the
statutes of limitations have expired. So one
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bit of advice I would give is
if you're somebody who's been sexually victimized,
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whether it was last week or last
year or ten years ago, um,
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go connect as soon as practical,
go meet with a trauma informed attorney who
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specializes in sexual abuse litigation to at
least here from that person. What are
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your options, if any, because
what I what I'm I don't want to
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see is but that by the time
you feel like, okay, I'm ready
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to go do this, it's too
late because of those darn statute limitations.
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The sooner you can get in to
talk to it a lawyer who don't knows
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what they're talking about. This doesn't
mean like a lawyer who handles nothing but
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car accidents or a lawyer who puts
together wills and trusts. Now it's got
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to be a lawyer such as myself, but there are others who who's almost
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exclusive focus of work is this area
of law. Go meet with them.
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Doesn't mean just by meeting with them
you're not committing to anything, but at
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least hear what your options are and
the time frame in which you have to
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make your decisions, because if you
wait too long, by the time you
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finally do make that decision, it
could be too late. Okay, Um,
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what are some of the best things
a victim can do to strengthen their
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case against their perpetrator? Well,
you know, what I don't want is
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is my clients going, you know, out there and sort of pulling things
361
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together for their case. Um,
you know, I think that that their
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case is their case. But what
I could say what helps is what I
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call coroberation or cooperative evidence. Cooperative
evidence is evidence that tends to support in
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some way, shape or form,
the disclosure of the victim Um. Cooperative
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evidence can be anywhere from a confession
by the perpetrator to physical evidence. Two
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I remember how the case as a
prosecutor. The child said that he was
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abused by this particular father and the
child I asked him to describe the room
368
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and he he just remembers a and
I can't remember specificly what animal, but
369
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this is a a pink stuffed elephant
on the shelf. Well, I thought,
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man, they're going to claim that
this child's a liar, he's just
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making it up. So I had
my investigator going and searched the home and
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what did we find on the shelf
in that room? A pink stuffed elephant.
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That was coroborative evidence. When I
was able to bring that forward to
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the jury, all that said to
the jury was this kid knows what he's
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talking about. He remembers the Pink
Elephant. They went and found the pink
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elephant and it's there. So why
should we not believe him for that?
377
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I mean, why should we believe
him for that, but not about what
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this offender did to him. So
thinking through, asking clients to think through
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that type of cooperative evidence. I
think the other thing that can really really
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help strengthen the case, probably more
than anything else, is getting your clients
381
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into trauma informed therapy right away.
The best witnesses that I have ever had
382
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in these types of cases are witnesses
who have been through therapy and, Um,
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I know some lawyers that insist that
they won't even take the case unless
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the client goes to therapy. I
don't I haven't gotten to that part point,
385
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because sometimes they just they can't afford
it. But if they can,
386
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getting therapy is really it's not only
helpful for my case but probably more importantly
387
00:31:52.839 --> 00:31:56.599
of course, it's helpful for that
client that they can begin processing this trauma
388
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in a healthy way so that they
can move forward with life and not be
389
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stuck. Um. So I think
those are two cooperative evidence and, even
390
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more importantly, therapy. Um,
what do you do for self care?
391
00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:19.039
I drink a lot. I just
Um, I um, I just try
392
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to I try to know boundaries,
like you know, I was telling somebody
393
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a group the other day, like
I don't. I do very little reading
394
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of books in this area. Um. So people say, did you read
395
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the new book by such and such? You know, because I'm right when
396
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I when I read, I want
to read other books. I'm reading now
397
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the biography of Jimmy Carter. I
want to read something that's completely unrelated to
398
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what I do all day. Um. I also you have to know how
399
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to turn things off. I've always
been pretty good at ever since my day
400
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as as a prosecutor. that.
That doesn't mean I don't work at home,
401
00:32:53.400 --> 00:32:59.279
as my wife will tell you differently, but I'm not living and breathing
402
00:32:59.480 --> 00:33:04.920
my work. Um, I know
I love to, you know, sit
403
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:07.880
and read, go swimming, go
to the beach, all those types of
404
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:10.200
things, even though I probably could
say, well, I should be homeworking
405
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:15.359
on this case. That's not healthy
for anybody and certainly not good for your
406
00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:17.240
client, because if you get burned
out as a lawyer, you're not serving
407
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:23.759
your client well at all. Okay, and Um, last question. How
408
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has this impacted your faith? That's
a whole another program Um. I think
409
00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:40.519
I think it's. I think it
has profoundly impacted my faith. I still
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have faith, which some days is
quite amazing. Um, I doubt a
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lot. Probably that a lot more, which I think doubt is is not
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necessarily a bad thing. Um,
I'm not nearly as black and white as
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I used to be or dogmatic.
Um, I don't think I have all
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the answers when it comes to my
faith and I stay away from people who
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think they do. Um. Yeah, I mean I I I have a
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00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:17.719
very low view of the church.
A pretty high view of Jesus still,
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but I have a pretty low view
of the church. Um. So,
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yeah, I think I think it's
it's prompted me to ask some really good
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questions that maybe years ago I might
have been afraid to even ask myself.
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Um. And so I just I
think in many ways I've been given a
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different Lens in which to look through
my faith and I think that's been a
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00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:45.320
good thing for me. Um,
it's been a healthy thing for me.
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I sort of got got out of
the small box that I was stuck in
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for most of my life when it
came to by faith and and I'm glad
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to be out of that box.
Um. And because I think that's I
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don't think. I don't think we
find got in a box, I think
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we find them outside of it.
I definitely agree. Um. Is there
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anything else you would like to add. I don't think so, Rachel.
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I mean just for for any of
your listeners if they like I said earlier,
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with regard to the advice I would
give victims, Um, if you
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00:35:21.159 --> 00:35:24.400
if you sell, if you are
somebody that has been victimized, don't wait
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00:35:24.440 --> 00:35:29.639
too long before at least talking to
a lawyer and, uh, they can
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00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:32.599
always reach out to me my websites, spas, law PA DOT com.
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00:35:34.360 --> 00:35:36.960
Um, they can reach out and
if they just want to set up a
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00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:40.079
free consultation, we can have that
conversation with them. Or they may find
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00:35:40.119 --> 00:35:44.760
somebody Um in there. You know, they may know somebody already. But
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00:35:44.840 --> 00:35:50.079
I just would encourage survivors listening.
Don't wait. Um, doesn't mean you
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00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:52.039
have to take action right away,
but at least know what your options are.
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00:35:52.599 --> 00:35:57.199
suffore it's too late. Thanks,
Bos Um. All right, guys.
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00:35:57.880 --> 00:36:00.079
Thank you, guys, for listening. Always follow us on Rachel on
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00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:05.639
recovery, on social media and your
favorite podcast platform and if you have any
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00:36:05.719 --> 00:36:07.840
questions, reach out to Rachel and
recovery DOT com. Thanks.
