Episode Transcript
WEBVTT
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M hm, Hi, guys,
this is Rachel Mancover. We're back with
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David and Linda Pittman and this will
be the last episode of this season.
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Um, but we're here. We
are with David and Linda Pittman, and
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we are so thankful that they are
here today. So, UM, what
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are some of the best advice you
you could give victims out there when it
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comes to marriage? Again, communicate, um, you know, and don't
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think that you truly understand what that
person has gone through, but try to
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you try to communicate in the sense
of really not just communicate. You got
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to listen to your spouse of the
needs. We were just talking the other
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day on another call of body language. Um, pay attention to all those
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nonverbal cues. Um is so important
too. And really, again, if
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you don't understand, then that's when
you're UM, talk to another spouse of
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a survivor if you can talk,
but mainly talk to your spouse and let
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them know you're not there too to
judge or ridicule or because it wasn't their
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fault. It's just just to be
there for support. And yeah, um,
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that is the best thing that David
is given to me. Not saying
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hey, I understand although he's been
through it and I've been through it.
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I'm a female, he's a male. There's no way I understand what he's
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going through. I get a glimpse
of it, right. UM, I
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just to say, yeah, I
understand that. We have also been told
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to never say I understand what you're
going through because we don't. We just
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start going to be there to love
each other. UM. For me,
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that's my advice, David. You
know, we had a therapist. We
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will work with a UM. Is
that what I think? That's what your
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reference? Yeah, there was a
there's we One of the organizations that together
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we hell partnered with is the Palm
Beach County Victim Services Department, and they
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just they do a great job because
they offer trauma and form care for free.
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UM. Not just for anyone that's
been sexually abused in Palm Beach County,
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but if you have moved to Palm
Beach County and you were sexually because
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as elsewhere, you can access that
resource. But one of the director they're
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taught us something. She said that
when she's working, when you're look,
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you're your face to face, right, you're taught you're talking with someone one
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of the those nonverbal cues that Linda
was referring to earlier. So you're looking
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at someone and they may begin sharing
their story and it it very likely may
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be one of the most horrific things
you've ever heard. Be aware of your
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facial expressions in that and to the
point of not showing shock or awe or
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or being gross because you're you may
be feeling those things internally because it's appalling
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what you know grown people will do
to children. But be you will just
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be aware of your face and your
expression to to be just too for it
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to be always just one of concern
and care, and not to be you
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know, have a look of shock
on your face because you may very well
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end up shutting that person down just
by that. No. No, those
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nonverbal cues most definitely UM, because
I mean, these things are hard enough
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to talk about and um there they
can be challenging to even get out.
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And so if you're not getting a
positive response or just I'm therefore you look,
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it's makes it that much harder to
open up. I think I had
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a guest Perry Power, and one
thing that I do agree with him on
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was he mentioned, UM, practice
telling your story first to yourself before you
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try to tell it to anybody else, and tell it to yourself in many
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different ways before you tell anybody,
because then you know that it's true.
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That's a really good idea. Yeah, and I think that was one of
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the most powerful things you know,
I could tell to you know, a
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survivor who hasn't come out yet,
that is this really good idea. Um.
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What are some more innovative treatments out
there that you find helpful? UM?
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I think we've mentioned a few of
these. Are there any others that
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we didn't mentioned? I've probably I'm
pretty sure the websites on the under the
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resource listed together we heal. I
know there's an equine. You know,
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it's a horse. There's a group
up in the northeast somewhere. It's like
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New Hampshire, Connecticut, somewhe up
there. They use horses. So I
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I know that there's some some are
some whether it's horses or other animals.
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UM. I know that's a one
that has has benefits for survivors of all
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kind of of of any kind of
trauma, UM, not not just sexual
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abuse. UM. But and that's
actually pretty common. UM. I know
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in St. Louis we have we
have a place that does it for veterans.
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I don't know if they would take
UM sexual abuse survivors, but that's
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becoming a lot more and it's it
works. It's good you know anything that
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can And I see you mentioned you
talked about doing um tai chi or taekwondo
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or any any whatever you know.
As as a sexual abuse survivor, you
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had your you had your body was
taking the rights to your body were taken
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away from you. You feel that
way, and any type of therapy that
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helps you regain that and remaster that, I say, go for it.
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And just because one didn't work for
you, or these ten didn't work for
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you, keep trying one until you
find one that does UM. Because we
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are all so differently wired as people. That's why I think there it's good
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that there are so many things out
there too to be able to access and
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try and and that's why that's the
thing I would say is keep doing it.
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And I'm gonna preach this last thing
till the day I die. If
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they are not when you go to
a therapist, the first question you asked
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them, are they trauma? Do
they offer trauma informed care? The second
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question you asked them to make sure
they are is how long, how many
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clients? How many years have you
been doing this? And if they don't
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tell you lots of clients over multiple
years, then go to someone who who
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didn't just recently go to a trauma
informed you know, online training session so
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that they can put that on their
on their UM, you know CV,
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make sure they've got experience in trauma
informed care. I second that, UM,
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because you know, it's mostly a
waste of time for you and for
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them unless they really understand trauma.
Yeah, how can like, how can
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we educate the community about survivors survivors
of childhood sextra abutse when it comes to
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marriage and maybe this more on the
lines of like church curriculum. You know,
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we are dealing with a married couple
such as yourselves and of both survivors
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and one is a survivor, and
you know they're doing a segment on marriage
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until the start taking accountability for it. I think there's gonna be a challenge
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in that. Um that that to
me is the biggest hurdle to face.
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UM. We just came back when
and I were in in Anaheim this summer
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at the Southern Baptist convention, and
there was a lot of raw ron,
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a lot of cheers and and and
and a lot of pats on the back
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about see. You know eight to
twenty we voted for reforms. Well that's
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all great when you vote on reforms, but we're now in November, and
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what actions have actually been taken,
what steps have actually been taken? Um?
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And until you know, until the
organizations and institutions actually enact those so
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they're so called reforms and they're so
called votes, then I'm not gonna believe
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them. Um. And I wouldn't
waste time with organizations that that aren't who
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will say and talk but don't ever
do. Here's what and I just,
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um, this is one of those
that we don't always agree on. UM.
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I believe, I do believe,
and I don't want to believe supportunate
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this. I do believe in individuals
and individual churches that want to do the
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right thing, but I don't necessarily
be believe in institutional change. And you
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see what I mean about the difference
in that, right, Okay, And
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so that's why we as as a
as some someone that works with grace and
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together we heal. Why I continue
to work with individual churches because I believe
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in the ones that have reached out
and said we need help, we want
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to do better. Um, but
until they start teaching you mentioned curriculum,
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until they start doing that in semit
at a seminary level. And that's questions
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for for other folks that other organizations, because that's I'm frankly not. I
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don't have the I don't have the
energy or the time or the desire because
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I don't believe the institutions want to
change just yet. I kind of hug
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that time from the Linda, how
about you, Linda anywhere? What he
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said, Okay, I mean,
was there like anything in curriculum that you
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noticed, like when you would go
to a marriage thing that would be triggering
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for you so to speak. Yeah, it's a good thing. Yes,
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Was there anything that you would say
was triggering. No, we were just
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saying when you walked away, and
we don't really see anything of triggering for
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us, We don't. That's not
really our era of doing like marriage counseling
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and stuff. You know. For
us though, what has been really great
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for us within our church is when
David got to go and teach at our
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church as if it was the child
safe safeguard turning, and so then the
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church knows who we are in that
regard, right. Um. And then
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with our small group and we've been
the same small group and has gotten a
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little larger. We also share with
them every every now and then, you
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know, it kind of comes up
certain things about our abuse and depending on
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scripture and whatever. So that helps
us, and that helps us to reach
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out to them to where they can
reach out to help their grandkids and help
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anybody else in the in our church. Oh the what's that? What's that
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group than the Episcopal church that teaches
other members in the church, remember the
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ministered Wine. There's a there's an
organization and I'm sorry I'm being a bad
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Episcopal by now remembering, but they
but it's big within the Episcopal Church and
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they spend time specifically teaching on certain
subjects. So the one that was in
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charge of that at our at our
church, she reached out and said,
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could you teach this group about child
sexual abuse and child safeguarding, so not
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not just to the church at large, but also some really hands on specific
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training, they asked, Um.
But so there, you know, and
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it truly is individualized in what you
we whoever wants to go out and put
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themselves out there for you know,
Um, David is a lot more is
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able to be a lot more outspoken
than I am, just with job wise
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and all that. Um, not
so much that he's more able i am.
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I'm not as well versed and still
sometimes even uncomfortable talking about it.
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Um, So you know, and
that's okay, That's just where I'm at.
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You know, I can talk all
day to him about it and still
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maybe cry about it or tear up
about it. So that tells me I'm
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not really ready to go out and
share my story with everybody else because if
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I can't do it without crying and
breaking down, I'm I'm not as I'm
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not that strong yet. Well,
you're just not there yet. I think
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you're strong, thank you, And
yes I am strong, and I readily
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agree with that. Just for the
lack of better words, I'm just I'm
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not ready yet and not you know, everybody, we all have different talents
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and that may not be mine.
You're one on one, I mean,
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you're one on one. Is is
is amazing the way that people will just
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open up to you and and and
because you are so just you write,
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just you being you, people trust
you, and they will talk to you
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and they'll confide in you, and
that I think that's one of your many
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gifts. M I guess, um, well, kind of advice would you
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give to somebody like looking to get
a marriage counselor and either one or both
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of them have been victims of childhood
sexual abuse? I'll go back to what
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I said earlier, right if you
make sure. I can't say this enough
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times, trauma informed care and they've
got to have experience with it. And
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I'm apologize, but it sounds like
I'm beating a dead horse, but I
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cannot emphasize it enough because there's unfortunately, there's not enough good ones. There's
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not enough with experience because as you
mentioned, Rachel, we've only really been
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dealing with this, honestly for a
certain number of years. And so because
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of that, you're that that means
you're not gonna have as many people you
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know. Um, but that that's
gonna be the thing that I'm gonna harp
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on. UM. I mean,
like, do you have you guys had
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any bad experiences going to a marriage
counselor and they just give you really terrible
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advice for victims of survivors We never. We never, We've never been felt
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like we needed to go to a
marriage counselor for us particularly, so I
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didn't speak to that. Yeah,
to speak on that as yeah, not
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find not something that we've experienced,
thankfully. Okay, UM, what do
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you do for self care? We
initially were apart. We were worked with,
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not worked with, but we were
just members of UM SNAP, the
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Survivors networks those of used by priests. They're a great organization because it's not
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just even though they've got the name
priest in the name, it's not just
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for those abused by priest, right, it's for anyone who's been sexually abused,
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and they they speak to two we
that was such a big part of
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that was and that was early on
in our marriage to where that helped us
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truly be able to more talk about
it. UM. But other than then
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doing something within the realm of of
something like SNAP or Grace or anything like
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that. I mean what David and
I I mean we're two miles from the
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beach, you know, we do
a lot of beach therapy self cares beach
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and it before COVID it was Disney. We're two hours from Disney. So
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but so we a lot of physical
right, So that that's the thing I
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guess you would just private is we
would do a lot of things that would
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get our our endorphins active by by
doing something physical. Yeah, and and
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and also we have learned to realize
when we need to get away and step
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away from bogging ourselves down about the
advocacy and talking about it so much.
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And so we would put out our
email and say, hey, we're off
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the grid for however many days,
for weeks or weeks, you know,
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please respect our time, you know, because as you know, if you're
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not good to yourself, how can
you be good for anybody else. Well,
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I think that's the main reason I
asked this question because I feel like
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a lot of people that are especially
those that are survivors, we have our
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own trauma on top of the fact
that we're trying to help other people,
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and that creates even more secondary trauma. Yeah. And if you don't what
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what Lendon just described, think,
I think it can be dangerous for a
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survivor if they don't. And you'll
see this, You're gonna see it.
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You'll see it at some point during
any year where you will see a post
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from one or both of us.
You know, if there's an emergency,
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contact X y Z from now until
from January one, January, you know,
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I will not be we will not
be addressing anything having to do with
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survivors rapiacy. There was a time, this is a few years ago.
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This was early on when I first
started. I logged off for a couple
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of months. Um. I had
to step away just for a couple of
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months. It wasn't just a couple
of weeks or a couple of days,
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um. And I really believe that
had I not done that, I just
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would have spiled out of control again
because it was too overwhelming. I did
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not have I had not yet learned
enough coping mechanisms and was working you had
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enough ability, um to handle what
was all of the stories that were coming
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in every single day. Now,
I I get that, I really do,
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because this stuff it's heavy. It's
probably one of the reasons why I
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did not finish my last my scene, my graduate project. I just it
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was too much. I was doing
it on ancestor recovery, and that stuff
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would put me in bed for three
days. So no, I get it.
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Yeah, UM, how has this
impacted your faith? Yeah? UM,
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I guess since David and I have
been back together, and I mean
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when we were even starting to talk
again and date because it was long distance.
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He was Fort Lauderdale was Georgia.
So what we had was our our
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lengthy conversations on the phone and we
would have Bible study over the phone.
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Um. And so with that,
my faith has gotten so much stronger because
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now I have someone to share it
with that is equally knowing that you know,
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it's for each of us, it's
God first, family second, and
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then the rest, you know,
it falls in place. And so for
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me it since David and I,
like I said, we, yeah,
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we, my faith is gotten stronger. And and I'm not gonna rehash the
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what I had said earlier, but
you know, because my path was different,
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what I'm thankful for is that in
our relationship, even though the path
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of our individual faiths were different,
our joint relationship and that faith that we
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have, even though mine is different
than Lendas and Lenda is different than mine,
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Lenda doesn't isn't upset with me,
or doesn't judge that mine is different
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and took a different path, right, you know, that's I think that's
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also equally important that I respect her
faith and she respects mine and that I
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don't try to make her faith mind
that she doesn't try to make my faith
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hers. That's that's been And again
it goes back to the communication. Right,
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we have been open and honest with
each other about our experiences, our
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walk, our journey. And you
know we we've said it to each other
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a million times and probably repeated it
to the point of boredom. Fear listeners,
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you know that that you know now
because we listen to each other,
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we communicate even if things, even
if we disagree on these things, that's
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okay. We can still work together
because we do have a shared faith,
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but they don't have to be identical
to be successful for our relationship. Yes,
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I think I think that's the beautiful
thing about God is he made us
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different, and but he also makes
us so we can work together. And
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that that to me is both the
the beauty of faith and the atrocity of
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faith. Right, is the image
that it can do when lead horrifically wrong,
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and then the beauty of what it
can do and help heal and when
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when done right. And if people
would just simply be more respectful and would
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you know my my granddad would say
you've got two ears and one mouth used
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them proportionately, right, Yes,
listen, keep your mouth shut and listen
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and and is what he would tell
me most dolphin, And and we do
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that night. Now. Now I'm
more of a talker, but once i'm
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quiet, I do listen. Yeah, hey, yeah, as from a
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failure of introverts, I mean introverts
extroverts. And I'm the quietest of the
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bunch, but I'm still not quiet. I would say I'm definitely the probably
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the best listener of the bunch.
That's good. It is a great attribute.
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I can so much see that about
you. Thank you. Um.
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Is there anything else that we didn't
cover? Thank We've uh done a pretty
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good job of rattling round along here
that I can think of. I appreciate
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you allowing us to come on and
and share with you, Rachel. I
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hope that there's been something or some
things that that has helped Lynda and I
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that will help somebody of your listeners. All right, well, thank you
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guys. UM. I hope to
have you guys on my show again sometime.
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As always, guys, thanks for
listening. If you have any questions,
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always reach out to Rachel and Recovery
dot com, follow us on your
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00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:33.039
favorite podcast or platform, or on
your favorite social media and or all right,
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00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:37.799
thanks guys, thanks special announcement.
We will not be back next week.
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We'll be back next year. Instead, we're going on a holiday break,
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I said at the beginning, and
I will reiterate that. UM,
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but feel free to check out other
episodes that we've had. UM. We've
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had some great ones this year.
We had Pete Singer, we had and
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Assault, we had uh Rita Ferrell, just to name a few. UM.
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And we had some more lighter topics
that had some big hits with Violently
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and Caroline with nutrition, and feel
free to listen to some of those maybe
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over the holidays, UM, and
get caught up on some of our episodes.
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We've got a lot out and that
Thanks for listening, and have a
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merry Christmas and a happy New Year. And I look forward to doing season
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three with you guys next year.
In
