Episode Transcript
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Hi, as this Rachel and Recovery. We're back with David and Lynda Pittman
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and they're here to tell the rest
of the story on their marriage and house.
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Being the survivors of sexual abuse has
impacted that. Uh, how much
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have you noticed a spiritual abuse and
sexual abuse being tied together with um effect
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and effects of that? Well,
what I referenced earlier, when when it's
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you know, when it's a person
and and I let mean, let mean
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to say, there's two things that
I think that that can be tied together.
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To me, the obvious one is
is in cases like mine where the
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the offender is a minister or some
part of the church. But I think
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also if the family meant, if
it's like a family member or even a
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family friend or somebody who has a
really big position of authority over that person's
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life, that that says there's a
big spiritual you know component to that as
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well. Um. And when you
tie those two things together, being physically
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sexually abused and then you throw God
in the mix, that dynamic it's destroyed
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literally destroyed lives where people have committed
suicide, they've overdosed, they um,
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it is it led them as in
my case, to physically do things to
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your body. Even though I I
never said the words I want to die,
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I was trying for over twenty five
years to kill myself. I just
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didn't know exactly what I was doing
right. And so I think that when
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you combine those two, that is
one part of how damaging and how really
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devastating it can be to a human. No, I completely agree. I
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think in the cases I've noticed,
that takes you. Know, if you
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have sexual abuse without spiritual abuse,
you can recover from that a lot faster.
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I feel like not to minimize sexual
abuse in general, but when they're
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tied together, it's like it's a
double whammy. For sure. I it
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takes you. I don't know,
it feels like forever to heal from that.
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I don't know if you ever really
truly heal from that. You get
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to be able where you can manage
it better. I think that's great way
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of putting it, that you managed. I think that's what we do.
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We all right, I you know, I still have the nightmares, we
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still have the triggers, who still
have things that affect us. I don't
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I don't believe, and I think
from my learned experience of working in this
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and advocacy and in the community of
survivors. Trauma is trauma is trauma,
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right, whether you it's you physically
beating, their sexually abused and their spiritual
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whatever whatever it is, whether there
are multiple facets to it um or whether
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it's quote unquote just you know,
singular, you know it depending on how
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much of a support system the person
develops, if they ever developed one,
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What access to resources do they have
or none? You know, you you.
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I think that's why it's so individual, for that for recovery and for
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healing um and why it's so tough
no um. You know, I mine
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twenty years of trying to heal from
all of this and I still haven't figured
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out half the answers. I think
that's the important part of doing things like
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this right well, I I Y
I, I genuinely believe. It's why
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I very seldom, London, I
knew the one of us, we very
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seldom say no when anybody says,
hey, well you would you mind talking
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about this, or or let's go
and do that, unless it's a scheduled
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conflict or or in my case,
I have then you have a surgery.
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Because I believe when I first started
reaching out, it was it was almost
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impossible to find any kind of resource. You know, maybe a book or
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two here and there, or a
group here there, but but even having
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even with online there's still wasn't always
accessibility or availability. So the more people
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that talk about it, the more
folks like yourself to do this. And
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you don't have to have quote unquote
all the answers ask Sometimes just asking a
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good question helps, Yes, most
definitely. Um, Now, I I'm
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doing E, M and D R
for the second round, and I just
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think about all that, and I'm
doing yoga and tai chi and those are
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supposed to be helpful, and I
think some point they are, but just
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no, the journey is very long, it is. And you know,
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so I just switched jobs. And
what I was doing I was working for
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about six years and and a dragon
rehab facility, and so you know,
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probably at any given time, I'm
fifty of the clients there had experienced sexual
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abuse, right, and so that's
where it brought them, you know,
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and so and so I could I
would be open with them this has happened
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to me, and that way too. It would bring that up to them,
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you know, it would be open
open doors for them if they felt
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like they wanted to talk. And
so, um, just as much as
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I've talked about it, not so
much given them my own personal everything,
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but UM, I like to hear
how other people have coaked for our coping
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and what has helped them in their
life, of course, other than the
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drugs. Ryan h Um. Yeah, Well, I actually I was in
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a conference once and you know,
people said, you know, the councilors
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like the drugs might have saved their
life for that period of time. UM,
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And so you know, not to
say drugs are a good thing,
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but it really in all honesty,
they didn't have the tools in order to
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survive, so that became the third
part of their chair to survive. So,
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yes, you mentioned e m R. Linda his his k had come
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home many times saying how much that
m b R had helped some of the
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clients there they had done had worked
with that. I know that's UM.
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A lot of the trauma informed therapists
that we have connected um sexual use of
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ovors too. That's been something that's
that's helped many of them. Yeah,
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and I've also done narrow feedback,
which is probably a little bit well mine
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was really intense UM and that was
that was helpful. But I think I
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was able to do E M d
R. I think much better this round
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after doing neuro feedback. After doing
that. Yeah, and it makes sense,
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get that because narrow feedback basically rewires
your brain mhm. And then you
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know, then you can reprocess your
memories better. Rachel Grant is a is
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a a good friend of ours,
and that's a big part of her program
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is is rewiring the brain right,
getting that. You know, I can't
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even I can't even sing enough of
her good praises because that's that's who really
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helped me process through UM and and
like the big that that real big hard
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hurdle park at the beginning, once
you've come forward and you've you've said,
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this is what has happened, um, getting my brain to go from Okay,
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there's the drugs. You can go
take those and be numb too.
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Oh, here's how I can rewire
that all ramp to go this direction instead
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of that direction, to have a
better outcome. Instead of ending up in
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prison, I can end up here
in a relationship with Linda. Yeah.
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Now, um, I would say, um, and it's it's it's also
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a grieving process of healing. I
don't know if you guys have experienced this.
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The healthier you get, the more
you lose relationships that you can no
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longer be in. Yes, and
and and thankfully we realized there's a choice
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too, that we don't have to
have those relationships nor do we need them,
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and realize how toxic they are or
were or could be potentially. Um.
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So we have definitely become wiser for
sure, through all of our studies,
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through all of our talking with people
doing things like this with you,
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Rachel, Um, it has truly
opened our eyes up to a lot of
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a lot um. So it is
it another reason why we like to do
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these things, because it's it's just
just good for us, as we hope,
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but it is for somebody else.
This is therapy right here for us,
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Rachel, So thanks anytime. I
mean. And the other thing is
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is I noticed this when I went
on a retreat, you know, and
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it was for sexual assault and it
was for all ages, which I think
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that should not be combined with childhood
sexual abuse victims. After getting back from
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that retreat, and I think you
have to be at a certain place before
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you could start helping others. Oh
yeah, I agree. I can't tell
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you how many times I've given that
counsel it's it's um it so in an
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a A. One of the big
rules they have is for those for um,
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somebody who's getting clean or sober and
wars over for them to not even
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be in a relationship for it to
first be lead or sober for a year
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that they can't be a sponsor for
it, will you know, they gotta
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be you know, at least a
year. They do that because there is
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this I think there's this thing in
humans that once we go we get a
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solution to a problem, you know, we get this fire. Oh,
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I gotta go and tell everybody about
this right now. And it's great.
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You don't want to quench that,
but you have to try to temper it
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and teach them. You still haven't
gotten to the point where you you haven't
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gained enough yet. But it's so
hard and so challenging. And I can't
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tell you how many times people who
have gone against that council have ended up
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flaming out or you know, falling
back off the wagon or or or you
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know, falling back deeper in depressions
from the abused. Whatever it is.
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Please take time from I can.
I can give you the exact number.
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It was five years from the time
I came forward until I actually was doing
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something, because I kept getting that. Every single time I would want to
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go and do somebody would say to
me, thankfully, somebody wise and somebody
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that I trusted would say to me, wait, give it some more time.
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And that time ended up being about
five years. And that doesn't mean,
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I don't mean that has to be
that that amount of time for everybody,
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but for Heaven's sake, wait at
least a year at least that long.
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I really believe you need to have
at least two or three years of
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your own at least that much before
you try to go out and do the
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advocacy things. Yes, and start
small, absolutely, you know, do
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small things, and before you try
to take on something big, like a
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retreat with survivors and get some wise
counsel. There's some really great folks out
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there, right, you know.
There are the Pete Singers and the Victor
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Beats and and Lost Divisions, and
there's some really great people out there.
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Ashley Easter, Rachel you know,
listen, yeah, Rachel Stone, listen
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to what she's telling you. And
I mean I think the longer. I
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you know, you know, so
when I was actually looking for you know,
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help, I you know, I
think that's one of the wisest pieces
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of ice I found out recently,
is you know, before you go,
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do you know any side of treatment
or you know, especially groups. And
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I feel like you have to be
really careful with groups and c PTSD,
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UM, because I feel like a
lot of times with PTSD you mostly just
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end up either trauma bonding, are
triggering each other. You've got it,
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and I'm not completely opposed, but
they need to be well organized, make
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people that have been doing it for
a very long time, yep, and
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keep and keep the groups small.
That's that's something else that I have realized
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lately. UM, tell us a
little bit about your experience with Grace and
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your organization. Together We Heal Together, We Heal. Started with no altruistic
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motivations whatsoever. I was simply I
was just doing a journal, actually a
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physical journal, um, of just
what was going on with me. That
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was, you know, the therapist
at the time. I was saying,
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and my mom even mentioned that,
you know, won't you start writing these
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things now, which lead to posting
the blog because and I don't remember who
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in my life said, you know
some there may be others out there,
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and if you blog about this,
you may find out. That was eleven
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when we started the Started Together we
Go blog. And within weeks I ended
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up with several other little boys who
then were grown men who had said,
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yes, this happened to me,
not at your church, it happened at
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this church in Georgia, or it
happened at that church in Georgia. And
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and we now know that he has
had an untold number of boys all over
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church churches all over the state of
Georgia for decades UM. And so as
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that was occurring, I felt like
I had a decision to make that either
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this was just going to stay this
or were we just what we were talking
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about? Are were we going to
do something larger, you know, to
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to do more than just the eyes
of this offender. And that's when UM,
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I reached out to some folks from
high school and some friends from college.
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And you know, one person designed
the webs and one person helped us
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raise the money for the nonprofit status
and and organized it. Unfortunately, we
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have a lot of great people that
are on this team. UM. And
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so that's when we started, and
its whole its whole purpose has transitioned over
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the last you know, it's harder
to think about eleven eleven years now.
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UM. There were times where we
were solely focused on connecting survivors to trauma
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informed therapists. UM. There were
times where we were solely workers working on
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doing you know, teaching parents how
to talk with their kids, UM,
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what just teaching to the basics,
what is grooming, what is you know,
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all of these things UM. And
so it's kind of become this UM
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a place where people can go to
find resources, UM, where you can
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be taught, where you can UM
connect with groups, whether it be a
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U as an example, one in
six, one of the male survivor groups
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UM, or or you need you
know, hey, do you know of
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any therapist in our area? So
we do a little bit of all of
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those things. Now we try not
to just focus on one thing. We're
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not trying to be everything to everybody, but we have some experience and expertise
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in those four areas. UM.
And then with grace that it's it is
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just about teaching at churches, specifically
Protestant churches. And I've done that all
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across the country from Oregon to Florida
and everywhere in between. Um, we
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teach them how to prevent abuse.
We teach them how to properly respond to
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both perpetrator and the victim and the
spider. Um. And so that's that's
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a that's a that's a big part
of that part of you know that that
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we were already doing these things with
together we heal When the founder boss came
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to us and said, hey,
and what what what I want to see
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about doing this pilot program with churches, And I didn't even let him finish
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asking the question. I was like, yeah, they absolutely need because it
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right now they're doing it all wrong
and they're still doing it pretty wrong.
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Yeah, I mean no, they're
they just they just don't know how to
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handle any of those situations. And
I think it's getting better just because the
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knowledge is I mean we I mean, sexual abuse has been going on since
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the beginning of time, but I
don't think it's and well understood into like
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at least the last thirty years.
UM. I think Dan Allender has done
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a lot. Diane Lamberg, I
mean, James Dobson had some good stuff,
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but some of his stuff I don't
necessarily agree with today you know,
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I'm not a fan of Dobson at
all. I think you know, at
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the beginning of his groundwork there was
some good stuff um for that for that
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era there that there are too many
good people and too many good programs.
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Uh you go. You mentioned Grace
um and we could would go up,
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but I would definitely recommend them go
that direction going together. He'll go with
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Grace versus um because the Dobson slash
fundamentalists flash. You know, when you
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go that road there, the solution
isn't that provides that they're going to provide
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is gonna be not based in trauma
informed care always, maybe not at all.
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And and I believe that trauma informed
care must take precipice over everything else
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um, because if they're not using
trauma informed care and they're telling you that
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you are actually the problem, that's
when it becomes so dangerous to the survivors.
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Yeah, I mean. And it's
been a long time since I listens
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to dopts in probably over twenty years, so okay, it's you know,
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I do remember as a small child
he had guests on there that had been
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abused, but I don't think I
think he was at the the beginning period
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of it, and I don't ever
know whatever happened later on. Um,
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And I think, well, I
mean, I will say, you know,
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yes, there was a lot of
fundamentalism in his stuff, but I
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think it was kind of scratching the
surface at the beginning of understanding childhood sexual
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abuse on a larger scale. That
That's all I would say too. I
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just I would just say, be
really cautious because that group of folks focus
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on new they focus on the new
fetic that biblical training to the point of
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that I believe it's dangerous that that's
the old warning I would give. Yeah,
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I mean, and I agree with
that. I mean, you know,
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growing up in that environment, you
know Christian you know, Southern Baptists
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Arena. There's just a lot of
toxicity there and a lot of things that
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just aren't well taught are well understood. Um. Hey, guys, thanks
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for joining us. David and Lindon
will be back next week with Part three
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to tell us the rest of their
story on marriage and being survivors of childhood
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sexual abuse. Thanks for listening.
Always tune into your favorite podcast at Rachel
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on Recovery or on your social favorite
social media platform or as always reach out
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to us on www. Rachel and
Recovery dot com. Thanks
