Episode Transcript
Hi, this is Rachel on Recovery we're here with Sandy Phillips and she's going to tell us a little bit about herself and then she's going to answer some questions for us.
Hello, it's good to be here. My name is Sandy Phillips Kirkham and I was sexually abused at the age of 16 by my youth pastor. I was very active and involved in the church and so this abuse really affected me in many, many ways. It was. He he basically just kissed me one night after a youth group meeting, and it escalated from there. The abuse lasted for five years. It was both sexual and physically abuse. Only after he was caught did that abuse end. I was 21 when it ended. And so for me, I, you know, I didn't really see it as abuse because I thought this was someone at 16, I was smart enough to know that this was kind of like love affairs. What he presented it to me. Said that we were married in God's eyes. Used a lot of scripture to twist that and and convince me that this was God's will. So in my mind, I had had an affair with a married man who was my pastor. And so for 27 years that's what I believed. And I kept that secret from my husband, from my family, and from my friends. I didn't tell anyone. Um, until a trigger forced me to deal with my past. And it was at that point that I began to understand that I had been sexually abused by someone that I should have trusted. In a place that should have been the safest place on Earth. The church. And that began my journey of healing and. Understanding that, you know, what was done to me was abuse. No. OK, well, thank you. Would you like to tell us anything else about yourself? About, like who you are?
Um, well, I am married to my husband of 44 years. We have two grown children, and then I have two very adorable granddaughters and a lovely little dachshund dog that I love and who is not always well behaved. But she's cute, I enjoy reading, gardening and I'm my life right now is pretty good. What have you done for recovery?
My recovery took a while, the fact that the abuse went on for five years and then my continually to keep that secret. Took a lot for me to unravel the abuse and the lies that he told me and what I believed about myself. Because I had always felt like this was had been my fault, that I could have done something differently. I should have been able to say no. I participated willingly which is all not the case. Understanding, you know the terms grooming and manipulation and gaslighting which are all part of a predators tool to create in the in the victim's mind that this was something that. They participated him. For me, my recovery really required me to really educate myself and once I could understand the terms grooming, manipulation and gaslighting, I then understood that I was sexually abused and that was a big step for me in my recovery. The second thing was I was able to finally tell someone and talk about my abuse to a counselor. I I have many close friends that I was able to confide in and I found that interesting when I would tell my story that. Telling it once or twice wasn't enough. I had to kind of keep telling that story over and over again so that I could really believe that I was sexually abused and that I could convince myself that this wasn't my fault. So it was education. It was talking to my counselor and to friends that
I felt the healing was a it was a part that it started my healing process, both of those things. Um. What have you seen help with other people's recovery similar to yours?
Some of the same things basically that I find in talking with victims, convincing them that it wasn't their fault. Victims carry a lot of guilt because we can always look back and it doesn't. You know, I was a little bit older, but even young children of seven or eight will say, you know, Mommy always said I should say no and I didn't say no. Victims carry a lot of guilt in the sense the feeling that they could have done something to stop it. And when in reality, when trauma hits you, your brain has to moment to freeze. It has to be able to cope. And the only way sometime we can cope when we're being traumatized is to freeze, ignore what's happening or we justify in some way the way it's happening and then we take on that flame. So for for victims, when I counsel them, I I try to tell them you have to start with this was not your fault. And again, I encourage them to talk to someone to make sure that they have a safe person that they can tell their story to without being judged. I think a lot of victims who've been abused by clergy also have a difficult time going back to church or trusting clergy. And I see both sides of it. I see some victims whose faith becomes stronger, and then I see some who will never return to the church. And each victim, it's, you know, it's, it's, it's different. Um. What have you seen as far as patterns in this type of abuse?
Well, the patterns are pretty much the same. Um, predators need to pick a target. They look for someone who is vulnerable, whether it be by their simply their age or someone, a child who's being bullied. They come from a dysfunctional home, a child who seems to be emotionally needy. They they target their victims. And, and that's true with adult men and women as well. They look for the woman who maybe is going through a divorce, who's who's, who has maybe had an emotional loss in their life. A parent has died. So the first thing is they need to target their victim and look for the one who will be most easily taken in by their actions. Secondly, they'll they'll establish a trust with this person. They will take this person and make them believe that they are very trustworthy and they establish this trust by trying to meet. A need or avoid in this victim's life and therefore the victim then begins to be dependent upon their predator. And before anything ever happens, because this person is being so good to them and so kind and has making them feel important or is feeling filling a void or a need. And then the next thing they start to do is they'll seclude the victim, look for ways to be alone with them they will. Kind of. Seclude them from their friends as well, and so that they become only dependent upon their predator. And then slowly and very methodically, the predator will start to sexualize the behavior. It can start with simply, you know, a touch that or they'll graze the the leg of the of the victim to see how they respond. They start their text, start to become more sexual and it's also slow and methodical and again the grooming process which has. Begun before this all starts, then the victim is unaware of what's really happening, and they're not able to say no and respond in a way that they normally would. And then once that happens, threats and secrecy from the predator are a part of this as well. So it's
a targeting the victim. They establish a trust, they to pretend to meet their needs, they seclude them, they slowly turn the relationship into a sexual one. And then. They have threats in secrecy, so that's the pattern that I see predators use. And again, they use grooming, manipulation and.
Secrecy as a way to control the victim. OK, how has this impacted your community?
Well, you know, for years I kept a secret and I worried that someone would find out about my past. Someone would learn that I'd had this affair with a married man who was my pastor. I was fearful, you know, I was kicked out of the church because they blamed me for the behavior of this man. He was given a going away party and sent to the next church. When I was called into the elders, I was told that because of my behavior, I was to leave. And so, you know, for me, that shame was always. Part of my life. And I would think, you know, how bad do you have to be to be kicked out of a church? And so my relationships with my friends and my family and and especially my husband, there was a barrier of a wall because of the secret that I was carrying, which then, you know. I could never be myself because I always worried that someone was going to find out about my past. That's disheartening.
It was very difficult because I was always protecting this secret and worrying that someone would find out, and through the years I would have triggers that would give me anxiety levels and I would have to pretend that nothing was wrong when inside I was about to explode. There were several incidences in my book where I described this that I had to pretend that I was feeling OK when I was breaking out into a sweat, or, you know, I was so worried that someone would recognize this. Anxiety, man and wonder what was wrong and then what would I tell them? So it was a very difficult 27 years and and what I found about the secret was you know, secrets only in heighten the anxiety because you're always on high alert as worrying that someone's going to find out about your past most definitely.
How did this impact your dating life?
Well, at the time of the abuse, because I was only 16 and it went on for five years, that became a problem because people would wonder why I wasn't dating. So my abuser would set up dates for me and then would tell me, OK, that's long enough, you need to stop seeing this person. So that made it extremely difficult for me to have any kind of a normal social life during this time of abuse. And he was very controlling. He controlled what I wore, where I could go, who I could see, what movies I could. See, I was in a trap and I felt like I was in a black hole with no way out. So when he would arrange these dates, I just would go on these dates whenever he requested or demanded. And then when he decided it was time for it to be over, then he told me I was to end it. And that pattern happened over that course of five years after the abuse ended. I was in a point of so low self esteem I didn't think I was worthy of. Love. And so, um, I was very promiscuous in my dating life and so. That was the aftermath of his abuse. That's her. That's horrendous.
Wow. I've never heard. I mean I think it's, you know, I yeah. I think a lot of victims will tell you that one of the things that, you know, I think a lot of prep predators do and perpetrators do is they, at least mine did was to tell me, you know, I was not worthy of being loved by anyone else. I was no longer a virgin, which, you know in the church that's promoted as being beginning and end all. So once you lose your virginity you're not as pure. So he was very adamant about. Telling me over and over that I was not worthy of being loved by anyone else. And so I began to believe that that's gaslighting. That is pure gaslighting. And so when the abuse ended. I truly didn't feel like I would be worthy of being loved by anyone. And so for me, the only way that I could feel like I could get the attention of someone or make them think that I was any good was to be more of a sexual being to them instead of a person who was interested in actually dating. Yes. I don't know if you've read Alexander's book the Wounded heart, healing or healing of the wounded heart. I have. Yeah, so I guess, yeah, a lot of us, I think go either the party girl or the, you know, being promiscuous is definitely one of the routes or don't touch me at all. Those are kind of the two extremes. We send it right exactly. Um. How has this impacted your marriage?
Well, I was fortunate enough to meet someone who really did care about me in the beginning. And really.
Didn't take me down that path of promiscuous behavior. Um, he was just this wonderful person that saw me for who I was and so. I I fell in love with him and he fell in love with me. And we got married and life was wonderful except for the secret that I was keeping from him. And so sexually, it didn't affect my marriage as much as most people might think, because he was a loving, caring individual. And the lie that I've been told that no one else would ever love me was now proven to be wrong and. I hung on to that and so. But the problem was, keeping that secret from him, I think, creates a barrier. And so that part of it was difficult, always fearing that he would find out. And I had no reason to be afraid. He was. I knew that he would respond only in a caring, loving way. But again, keep in mind I'm thinking I've had an affair with a married man who was the pastor. So. In my mind, that would be something to share with him, would be devastating for him to learn. Uh, when I did finally tell him about the abuse, I was able to express it in a way that this was I was sexually abused at the age of 16 by my youth pastor and. There was never any judgment. There was never. You know, my concern was, well, would he wonder why I didn't tell him all these years later? What do you see me different sexually? I mean, all of those fears were unfounded, but that's, that's again an indication of someone who's been abused because we cannot see through the lies we've been told over the years. And because I've been thrown out of the church, I saw the response of people when they found out. So, you know, for me, I didn't want to have to go through that judgment again, even though I knew that wouldn't come from my husband. It's a fear that lived in my mind and in my heart for years. I will tell you, I never let the words. Don't ever tell leave my mind. I always heard that in the back of my mind from that my abuser. The words don't ever tell and no one will ever believe you was always a part of me and that's it. Certainly guided my life in how I responded to wanting not anyone to know. Fair enough. How
has this impacted your parenting?
Well, again, I hate to repeat myself so many times, but because I saw this as an affair, I never saw my children as being in danger because I didn't see this as something that I saw this as something that I did and participated in. And so I was very confident in my raising my children that this was something that they would never do. And, and, and this is something that doesn't happen that often at the, you know, I got the one pasture that was the one bad apple in the barrel. So I didn't fear them being in church. I didn't fear that they would be looked upon in a sexual way and taken advantage of. It was only after my daughter turned 16 that I did have a moment of wow, I was only 16 when this happened, the same age she is and look how young she is. But again, I didn't equate that that I'd been abused, so I didn't fear she would be abused. However, I do have two lovely little granddaughters. That I watch over like a hawk and I'm more aware now and I pay more attention. To that to them and how this could impact them and how there is the chance that sexual abuse can be a part of their lives. I don't know if that makes sense or not. Um, but I'm such more vigilant with my granddaughters than I am with I was, I guess. How did your mom, your parents, respond?
Well, my mom, you have to remember this was a very charismatic individual. He, the church, loved him. He was treated like a rock star. People thought he walked on water. His sermons were phenomenal. People flocked to our church to listen to this man. And so when I tell people that he grooms a victim, he also grooms the people around him. And so people were just enthralled with this man. And my mom kind of felt the same. Way about him. And because it ended when I was 21 and she didn't know how early it had started, she too kind of saw this as an affair. And in her mind he was leaving the church and so. Let's just let it in. Just drop it, um. And so it was kind of like sweeping it under the rug for her, which I understand now looking back on it. You know, she was embarrassed for me. She didn't want to make this a bigger deal than it was, and it was an affair that was going to end because he was leaving. So that's how she saw it and that's how she responded to it. My parents were divorced, so I didn't. My dad really wasn't involved in it. My stepfather was really angry and upset. But again, I think the thought was. It's over. Let's let it in and let's all move on. Sandy will be back next week at 10:00 AM and always follow us on your favorite social media platform and always follow us on your favorite podcast platform. If you have any questions, reach out to Rachel on recovery.com and we are on YouTube. And feel free to subscribe to our YouTube channel. Thanks.
