Episode Transcript
Hi, this is Rachel on recovery. We're back with Sandy and she's going to tell the rest of her story.
How did this impact your health?
I had a lot of anxiety, but I don't know that I can say there was anything physical that ever manifested itself through that. I think being on high alert, worrying about someone fighting about your past obviously can have an impact. Emotionally, but physically I I I can't say that there was you know, I know a lot of victims will have eating disorders. They're self mutilation. I I didn't experience that and I think in part because I did have a loving relationship. I did have a good life. I had two great kids. I was involved in my community and so that kind of glossed over any anxiety that I did have and the triggers that occurred I was able to. Manage them in a sense. But when I did finally have that trigger that forced me into dealing with my past, it was pretty horrific. I was a mess for three or four weeks. I, I, I couldn't function. I, I and I didn't tell anyone at that point. And it was only after I was able to share with my best friend what was going on in my life that I was able to start the process of being able to heal and finally being able to tell my husband so. During that. And even two years after I was able to come out and tell people about my abuse. It was pretty pretty tough time during that time because I'd spent 27 years hiding it. Now I'm having to deal with it.
How has this impacted your social life, or how did it impact your social life at the time?
While at the time, again he was so, you know, this was a, the person that I looked up to, he was very active with. I was very active in the church. So he was always getting me involved in church activities. He was always telling me how wonderful I was. So I saw him as this great, wonderful person as everyone else did. But after he turned the relationship sexual, he became very violent. He was totally a different person. He degraded me. He told me I wasn't very smart, I wasn't pretty enough, I wasn't thin enough. I mean, I I there was nothing I could do to please him that made him feel, make me feel like I was worthy. And so his demeanor, when it changed, he became very controlling. As I said earlier, he told me where I go, who I could see, what people I could date. I mean, he totally controlled my life. So my social life was. Not really nonexistent when I went to school. I could be more myself when I was away from him, and I still found church to be a great place for me as far as being involved. I sang in the choir. I taught Sunday school. So it was kind of this, really a dichotomy of this evil on one side and on the other side, I felt like I was a part of the church, doing good work and doing what I was supposed to do in my spiritual life. But it was, it was, it was very it was horrible to navigate trying to pretend that I was this happy go Lucky 1617 girl who was, you know, trying to go to school and do homework and worry about going to prom when I was having this evilness on my other side.
How has this impacted your faith? Well, that's the very saddest part. For me, it really did contaminate my faith. And I was very, as I said, active in the church. I took my Bible to school. I was did devotions every morning. I I led retreats after the abuse. I never opened my Bible and I never prayed again. And I that was my life for 27 I did take my children to church because I wanted them to have that experience. But I never could engage in anything in church. I I. It just it it brought back too many memories for me. And so for me, I lost 27 years of having a spiritual life. Today it's still difficult for me to attend church and it doesn't matter what denomination, it's any church. So when I attend funerals or weddings or I have a reason to be in church, it's it's extremely difficult for me. You know, it was that was a place that I found joy and peace. And now I find it to be a place of conflict and pain. Spiritually. I found my life with God. I I do pray. I don't like to pray outside out loud, and I don't like to listen to someone else's prayer. But I have connected back with God in that way. And I do read the Bible. But again, I think if someone says to me, well, you know, the Bible says I just tense up because it is, it's it's a reminder. Of listening to his sermons, it's a reminder of him telling me what the Bible says. If it's a reminder of me hearing the words, this is God's will that we're to be together. And so from that aspect, I think it's the outside aspect of spirituality that is difficult for me. But inside I do have a relationship with God. And you know, I I don't think it'll ever be the same, but it is there for me. I you know, it's
a chapter I talk about my book called Spiritual Wounds and it it is the most devastating part of this abuse because not only did he twist scripture and twist my spiritual life, but by being told to leave the church, I was basically told that I wasn't fit to worship in a church. And that stayed with me. And I've often said as horrific as the abuse was. The response of that church probably had a greater impact on my life than the actual abuse. Yeah, no, churches can do a lot of damage.
And I think sometimes and more times than not, their abuses is worse than the actual. I mean, the the initial abuse. I mean, I'd still call it abuse, but and and they're exactly. Yeah, no, it it it is. And and it is amazing to me the number of churches when I've dealt with victims and I've spoken to churches who cannot address the victim in the way that they need to. The victim is often revictimized by the response of the church. And when churches give support to the abuser, it it, it does tell the victim that what was done to you was not as bad as it seems and there's often times. The support is given to the abuser because he is the pastor and and people don't want to believe that he's capable of such behavior. Well, I mean, that happens more times than not. I've been working or I've been doing a lot of interviews with grace and Project 0 abuse project and they go in and they work with churches and they train them not to do that. But I mean, there's going to be a lot. We're going to need a lot more organizations like Grace or SNAP to. You know
yes, yes and both of those organizations are are excellent highly recommend looking them. And yeah no and I I think I've gotten to the point where I'm part of the PCA and they they they really do try to be a little more trauma informed than a lot of the other denominations that and the Methodist. As far as denominations, when you're looking for a church because that's that's tough as a survivor and you want to go back but there's just because you know you're supposed you know we're supposed to be in community. I mean but if you're not feeling safe when you. Yeah. And if something doesn't like being part of the church it it it.
And and you, you, we as human beings, we need that spirituality. It's part of it's part of us. And then so these men and sometimes women have touched the sacred part of our soul and they've damaged it to some extent. And it's it's it's difficult to not fear being in a church or worry that you know is this church going to respond if they were to have the same situation that occurred with me. And so yeah education is very important for churches to I think it's important for them to understand that these predators, this is these are not one time events that these predators and in my case the church was well aware of an incident in his prior church before they hired him and they still hired him and they didn't provide that information to the congregation. And when six months within his arrival, he's kissing me in my home after a youth group meeting and even after. They learned about what he had done with me. They still allowed him to move to the next church. And so that that practice has got to stop. I mean, spotlight, I don't know if I'm sure you've watched the movie or I've heard about it.
I mean, it's just a prime example. And it's not just the Catholic Church, let me tell you. It is so not just the Catholic.
It's not. I mean, mine was in a. Mine was evangelical church. It was a Christian Church of Christ. Yeah. And yeah no it's if, if people want to and I think if you probably are aware too that Baptists have just had a big explosion and their church denomination of you know the number of men that they've kept on a file over in a secret file for the Baptist Church. So and and and part of that is victim speaking out and saying Kevin I grew up in a Baptist Church telling stories. I went to Church of God and. It's, you know, it's not really all that different. And until I went to the PCA&PCA,
I'm sure has their issues. But I don't know, I just like the way they interact with each other.
Now there's a culture. Yeah, now there's a culture in many of the evangelical churches that suppress abuse in the home. They. You know, the woman is not to be is to be submissive. And that kind of thinking adds to the ability to be, you know, for these predators to work. They're not, we're taught not to question, you know, the pastor, he's a representative of God. All those things play into why they can hide under the radar and get away with what they do. I mean, my one of the things I, I, I say to people is. You know, if there's behavior you question in your pastor or something doesn't seem right, is this behavior you would accept in a stranger or behavior you would accept in your neighbor down the street? If it's not then it, then you need to question it. You know if if if your pastor tends to be paying attention to one particular person or child or the he tends to be more friendly, you know that that might be a warning sign. It certainly would have been with me and many people said to me later. You know, I often wondered when he said this to you that that seemed odd. Or I remember one time I saw him do this and but no one wanted to question him because it's not in in their thinking that it has to be able to do something like that. Especially, you know, I grew up in the South and I mean just, you know, the respect level and just, you know, putting them on a pedestal
is dangerous.
Yep, it's it's it is.
What do you do for self-care?
Well, I take a lot of breathers. One anytime I'm feeling overwhelmed I just. I lay down and take a nap. I I just let my mind relax and I take a nap. I like naps. I also like to read and. I'm very a very social person. So I I draw a lot of strength from my friends belong to a book club and I belong to a euchre group. Any opportunity to go to have lunch or dinner I'm right there. So that's my self-care is to spend time doing things that I totally enjoy. But again I decompress with a nap in the middle of the afternoon if I feel like you know, I'm just feeling overwhelmed. You know, doing these podcasts and. Doing my advocacy work, you know, can be draining and it can be emotionally difficult at times. So I do need to take a break. And I encourage victims that, you know, this is something that you need to. And self-care is just so important because it's it's it's what we derive our energy from, it's how we can be healthy. And so it's important to take care of ourselves. What would you like to say to encourage other survivors
first I would say there is hope and there's healing. I know at times that may not seem possible and I know there were times with me that I just thought I'm never going to get be able to to to let this go and and I don't want to say get past it because you're never really past it. But what I would say is that your abuse will. Always be a part of your life because it affected your life in ways that it altered forever. But it doesn't have to define your life. It doesn't have to define who you are. And again I would say healing comes from from from educating yourself. You know, read all you can about abuse and how these predators work because it it will help you to understand that you were in you were trapped, you were prey to this predator who tracked you and. Do not blame yourself in any, any way at all. You know, whatever you said or didn't say at the time the abuse occurred was all you could do with the coping skills you had at the time. You know, it's so much easier for all of us to look back and think, Oh well now, knowing what I know now, I I wish I'd done this or done that. But, but you did what you could at the time in order to survive the abuse. And I say that in the sense that we, we find ways to justify the abuse when it's happening. We find ways to to survive. And part of that survival is just allowing it to happen because we don't know what else to do. And again, we are being told by our abusers, you know, the lies that we're told, that this is something that should be a happening and that they care for us and that they love us. And so I I I just cannot say it enough that you victims need to let go of any guilt or shame that they may be carrying. Any guilt or shame squarely is on the abuser himself. No one else. The other thing
is to talk about it and to Share your story with someone that you can trust. And if you've been abused in in the church, I would encourage you to talk to someone outside of the church. And get their perspective. Because sometimes people within the church who are well meaning don't always understand how clergy abuse affects an individual. And so sometimes they will say things like, you know, let me pray for you. Well, to a person who's been abused in the church, that's a trigger. You know, I, I, I, I, I tense up when someone says they want to pray for me. And while that may be well intended, it's not helpful to a victim. They'll quote scripture. Often times, again, that's not helpful to someone who's been abused in the church. And I'd say to victims, it's okay to sell. Tell someone I don't want you to pray for me. And I know that's kind of hard for us who've grown up in the church, but it's okay for you to set boundaries as to what is helpful to you and what is not. And then I would say to victims. Healing is difficult, and it's it's not an end, it's a process. You'll take four steps forward in your healing, and then maybe 2 steps backwards.
But each day can be better and can get better. Finally, what would you say was the most important piece of advice somebody gave you on your journey to of recovering?
That what he did to me was wrong and he had no right to do it. That that statement from someone who I knew understood the the pain that I was feeling just solidified for me. That, you know what, he had no right to do what he did. Absolutely none. And it wasn't my fault and I wasn't being judged. You know, that's not really a piece of advice, but it's it is. It was something that really helped me. Heal and helped me to move forward.
Well I'll just reiterate that you know for victims, if you if you are being abused now and you have not told someone tell someone it's so important and whether or not you want to expose your abuser or not. That's you know something up for discussion in in in later on maybe but it's important that you tell someone about your abuse now and if you have been in an abusive relationship. There's healing there. It's healing there. It is possible and there's hope and there's healing.
Okay. Yes. And you wrote a book. And you and I tell our audience about I did write a book. It's called let me prey upon you, PREY with the words PRAY crossed out. So it's let me prey upon you. And it's about my journey. It is about the abuse, but it's also about. Hope and healing, the first half of the book someone described to me, they they read the book and said, you know, I read the first part of your book and I was just like oh, that poor girl, that poor girl. And then I got to the second-half of your book when you talked about your healing and how you advocate for victims and it was like you go girl, you go girl. So it I don't want people just assume it's a book that's going to be depressing and that they're going to find difficult to read because it is about my. Process of what I did to heal and part of my healing was like I eventually confronted my abuser, I hired a private investigator and and confronted him and and that was huge step for me to be able to do that. It's not something that every victim should or can do, but for me that was important and I was thankful that I was able to do that as well. So the book is available on Amazon. It's also available on my website. I would encourage people to go to my website. It's simply my name which is Sandy. Phillips, Phillips, Kirkham, KIR kham.com. There's a lot of resources there. There's a lot of information that I think would be helpful to victims as well as those who want to understand clergy sexual abuse.
Most definitely. All right, I think that's it, unless there's anything else you'd like to ask. And and my heart goes out to those who have suffered the same kind of abuse.
Alright guys. Thanks for listening, TuneIn. Next Thursday at 10:00 AM and as always, follow us on your favorite podcast, our social media platform and always feel free to subscribe and have any questions. Go to Rachel on recovery.com. Thanks.
